RE: gender mix

I am not actually teaching any perl classes currently, although I plan to in
the future.  I was previously a trainer for Oracle and traveled extensively
for them.  The class mix was about the same (3 in 12).  The women that did
attend were generally in some form of management and/or with their manager
(who was most often female as well). The exception to this was the intro to
the end user products, which were very evenly mixed.

On the other thread, I will most likely get eaten alive for my opinion.
But, after all, it is an opinion based on my own observations.  

I must agree that although Mothers are contributors to the problems, Fathers
also need to stop discouraging the behavior that women take care of the home
and so only need social and domestic skills.  Or that boys DON'T need to
learn them.  Men tend to value the opinion of other men over a women and in
some areas (notice this is coming from Arkansas), woman CANNOT get anything
done unless their husband gets involved.

I must admit though, largely free market is also at fault.  By example, I
received a coupon for computers, one geared towards boys and one for girls.
There was a large assortment of software for both.  The girls computer was
patterned after Barbie and the boys was Hotwheels. The interesting thing was
that the software for the boys included 6 or 7 educational packages (math,
spelling, reading, et al) in addition to the games, of which there were not
many.  The girls model had only the reference materials (which the boys also
had) and was largely Barbie games.  A clear signal here to me was that this
company, at least, did not see it necessary to educate the females.  

BTW: Barbie is actually a good role model, if you read the books from her
book club.  They portray her as an intelligent, problem solving female, not
as a brainless fashion model.  We read these to our daughter at bedtime as
an example that woman are equals intellectually to men.  One of them had her
as a shuttle pilot and another as an investigator of a jewel theft.  Both
exciting Barbie stories!!!

Regards,

Christopher D. Prince-Colbath
ISD Open Systems Database Administration
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc
	
:-) Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this email are my own are not
representative of Wal-Mart Stores, Inc., or any of it's subsidiaries.

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	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Elaine -HFB- Ashton [SMTP:[email protected]]
	Sent:	Monday, January 17, 2000 10:30 AM
	To:	Madeline Schnapps
	Cc:	[email protected]
	Subject:	Re: gender mix

	Madeline Schnapps [[email protected]] quota:
	*>
	*>I have interviewed several male Perl programmers that work for two
	*>companies that actually develop products and services completely
with Perl

	Interesting perspective. Have you interviewed any of the women? One
	thought I have is that many of the women don't get sent to training
for
	one reason or another. The computing field is *SO* homogeneously
white male
	that I don't accept the idea that well, white guys are the only ones
	either good at this or like this type of work...in fact, there are a
lot
	of guys who aren't that good at it :)

	Perhaps ORA could poll the companies who send people to TPC as to
how many
	women they employ and how many they will be sending to the
conference and
	perhaps get them to comment. It gets really old going to these
things with
	all the good old married guys who talk in the conference about how
the
	wife or the little woman is out shopping, etc. 

	*>So you are a female programmer, why do you like programming?  Was
your Mom
	*>a programmer?  What kindled your interest?

	I'm an SA, a different kind of problem solver. :) And, my father was
an
	EE, mom ran out-patient surgery and, out of 4 daughters there are 2
	Martha Stewards, me and a nurse practitioner who makes me look like
Mary
	Poplins. I have no explanations as to why or how I was interested in
	science from a very early age.

	My first computing experience was in grade school with an original
Apple
	computer. I asked the physics teacher to show me how to use it and
he kept
	putting me off until one day I saw him tutoring one of the boys on
its
	use. I grabbed the manual and taught myself to spite him. 

	Nature v. nurture? No clue.

	*>But it does start at home with "Mom" as I described in my previous
email.
	*>So somehow we need to fix "Mom" and things will begin to change.

	I don't know as I don't have children, but I wouldn't be so quick to
blame
	mothers as it would seem a very popular way to excuse many things
these
	days. Turn on your TV and watch it for a few hours and you'll be
	inundated with the very same message...when is the last time you saw
a
	smart chick on TV that wasn't either portrayed as unattractive or
plain or
	downright aggressive wench? There is a lot more at work here than
girls
	being told that they aren't good at math...they believe it. Math is
just
	another language. We need to start telling ourselves that, despite
the
	differences in gender, that we should be able to do whatever
interests us.

	For every person who says that they don't discriminate against
people in
	typical societal norms, I suspect that they aren't being totally
honest
	with themselves. I'll use myself as an example. I read Skid's
article on
	perl.com last week and thought it was great, but I noticed something
that
	bothered me. I mailed a friend and asked them to read it and tell me
what
	he thought. He liked it very much and suggested that it might have
	examples of code but otherwise a good article. I then begged the
question,
	why, when I can make a sailor blush did I notice the word 'damn' and
think
	'hmm, is that appropriate?' Would I notice this if a guy had written
the
	same article? Crazy and stupid, but there it is. 

	The Perl community has some of the most enlightened people I have
the
	pleasure of knowing, so it is possible that the tide could be turned
in
	some small way. 

	e.