Charlie does not let Lisa near those scary ultra loud crinkly biodegradeable Sun Chips bags.

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Fortnite: Save the World For Mac Is Shutting Down Because of Epic's Battle With Apple
from the businesses-being-petty dept.
Epic Games says Fortnite: Save the World will no longer be playable on macOS beginning on September 23rd because Apple is preventing the game from receiving new updates. The Verge reports:
The co-op action shooter was initially released as a paid early access title in 2017. Epic's far more popular free-to-play battle royale will still be playable on Mac, the company says. Epic says Apple is blocking new updates and patches for the macOS version of Save the World, and an upcoming update going out to other platforms will cause bugs and "a very poor experience" for players stuck on the current version. 

In late August, Apple terminated Epic's developer account, meaning users cannot download or reinstall games developed by Epic, including Fortnite, and Epic can no longer validate updates for distribution. The studio said that it will issue refunds to "all players who purchased any Save the World Founder's or Starter Packs (including Upgrades) and played Save the World on macOS between September 17, 2019, and September 17, 2020." Epic Games says it may take until October 2nd for players to receive refunds.
Posted by BeauHD 7 hours ago
apple business games mac fortnite
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Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store... (+4, Insightful)
williamyf 7 hours ago
There is no way in hell apple cold stop Epic from publishing updates on their website.
Granted, the update will not be notarized, and MacOS would throw a warning and refuse to run the binaries. But cancelling the warning and being able to run the update is actually easier than sideloading an android app downloaded from a Website. You know, like Epic did a while ago with Fortnite itself...
Good grief, just do the update, publish them and let the chips land were they will.
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. (+2)
dgatwood 7 hours ago
If the app is sandboxed, it's actually quite a lot worse than the machine refusing to run the binaries because of lack of notarization. The app wouldn't be able to access its sandbox container at all, so even if you dismissed the warning, you still won't be able to usefully run the app.
They could, of course, have you re-download with sandboxing disabled, and then the app could manually migrate the sandboxed preferences and similar back into the main Library directory, but it would require some coding effort, and the resulting app would probably still be unable to access anything that the previous sandboxed app had stored in the keychain (including the user's login credentials), or at best would trigger a flurry of extra permissions dialogs.
Impossible, no. Painful, definitely. :-)
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. (-1)
Anonymous Coward 7 hours ago
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Every time the "editors" post a new "story," they pass around the joint and take another toke. I'm not even joking. On Friday, it is pot potpourri where the ingestion method of personal choice is encouraged.

EditorDavid: Maaannn, these Al stories are sooo cccooolll man, you know the robots already took over the world, nobody realizes it yet. It's so full circle, maaaann. [ssssssp! *cough* *wheeze*]

BeauHD: Man, I just saw a crazy thing about how iOS has a bunch of Al in it to detect your cancer with its facial recognition technology. So cool, man! Hey check out this new phone from China I just got. It's a Hua, huh, hua [blurublurublrulburlbul ....gasp....gasp...] weeeeeeeeeeeeeeei HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Ms. Mash: The Al find way with election cycle of Michael Moore Trump enemy number one, thank you to all IQ lowered, enhance Al to help election on Russia. [eats an edible, picks an Enya song on iTunes, and repositions herself into the lotus position]
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. (+1)
angel'o'sphere 7 hours ago
I did not understand a single word.
I download and install "applications" on my Mac quite often ... what "sandbox" are you talking about?
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. (+2)
dgatwood 7 hours ago
 App sandboxing. Required for any app distributed in the Mac App Store.
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. (+2)
adamstew 2 hours ago
It's a computer. They are free to distribute the app via their own website. Users can download it and install it. No Mac App Store required.
The only plausible argument is that users will have to delete the version they have downloaded from the app store and do a brand new "full install" of the game from outside of the app store...but there is absolutely nothing preventing Epic from doing so.
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. (+1)
CoolDiscoRex 5 hours ago
what "sandbox" are you talking about?
Damn, dude, don't they have playgrounds where you're from?
Google the nearest one, drive over to it, find the sandbox, kick the down the sand castle of the little wiener kid who made it, and as the kid is crying while the mother is berating you for destroying her little messiah's masterpiece, sit down and download the application of your choice.
Once it's installed, you're good to go. It'll stay installed so long as you don't delete it.
Come on, people, what's so hard about this?
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. (+1)
DontBeAMoran 4 hours ago
"Once it's installed, you're good to go. It'll stay installed so long as you don't delete it and as long as you stay in the sandbox."
FTFY
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. (+1)
idontusenumbers 6 hours ago
So package it in a DMG or PKG and have them log into epic account again and re-sync all their content?
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. (+1)
dgatwood 5 hours ago
Pretty much, yeah. Like I said, not impossible, just annoying.
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. (+2, Insightful)
CoolDiscoRex 5 hours ago
Personally, I think this is awesome. I want my computer manufacturer to determine what software is acceptable for me to run, and I feel like we’re finally getting closer to that awesome reality. The walled garden that is iOS has, at least to varying degrees, found it’s way to the Mac. I guess all us frogs saw it coming when Apple began slowly turning up the heat. They didn’t turn it up fast enough for us to leap out, though.
It’s a matter of time before it will be impossible to disable SIP, and all software will have to be blessed by Apple on the Mac as it is on the phone. Phones and tablets are simply smaller computers, and most of us actually accepted that we could not get root on our own private property, while the manufacturer got to keep it. Many of you prefer it this way, no doubt the higher-IQ segment of users.
We’ve finally progressed. I try to imagine being denied root on a personal computer (of any OS) in the 1990s, and I can’t imagine it meeting anything but ridicule. Now, it’s an actual thing that people don’t just accept, but defend. Even though it’s been shown repeatedly that duopolies are nearly equivalent for consumers as monopolies, the consumer still champions their “choice”. Much like Democrat/Republicans do.
Alas, the promise of the great liberating giving a voice to the people never materialized. Instead, the big companies used it to accelerate their hold on the population. Now we compete over who’s more loyal to the corporation. I just read another post on another site where, in response to someone posting the specs for an iPhone X, a guy posted “You shouldn’t post unofficial specs. Apple has asked us not to care how much RAM our phones have, and some of us have agreed not to.”
This appeared to be an otherwise intelligent, rational adult.
We’re a smart species, having invented jets and radar and skyscrapers, etc. but our narcissistic self-defense mechanisms are exploited with little effort.
Speaking of, if you disagree with anything I’ve said, then remember, I’m a Troll, or maybe, just maybe, either insane or evil. They’re the only rational explanations.
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. (+1)
nitehawk214 2 hours ago
And not worth the development effort, thus they are shutting it down.
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store. (+1)
SleepingEye 7 hours ago
They could, but why? They've already lost access to the SDKs. The computer noobs using those laptops aren't going to want to or know how to leave the confines of the garden. They could easily turn blacklist Epic Games should the lawsuit get worse. Throw them on the malware list. There's literally no reason why they should waste any more effort on that platform
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store. (+1)
Arkham 4 hours ago
They didn't lose "Access to the SDKs". I don't have an active developer account, but I have access to all the SDKs. Go to the app store on a Mac, download Xcode, and there you have access to every SDK that Apple has.
This is purely about signing the app and putting it in the app store. The SDK access thing is fear mongering by Epic to try to justify to the court why they shot themselves in the face.
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store. 
Anonymous Coward 28 minutes ago
They didn't lose access to the physical code, but they lost access to the LICENSE. This means Apple can turn around and sue them into the ground for IP infringement because they are using copyrighted Apple stuff without permission, and for profit.
IMHO, Epic is digging themselves a big hole. They signed Apple's contract, and just that alone will get their case thrown out of court. A contract is a contract, period.
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. (-1)
K. S. Kyosuke 7 hours ago
Or, people could just ditch those fakeputers.
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. (+1)
msauve 5 hours ago
"There is no way in hell apple cold [sic] stop Epic from publishing updates on their website."

Perhaps, but this isn't about that. Epic is trying to win users over to their side. I predict this will turn out to be a major backfire. They'll be cutting off paying customers, and those customers can't blame anyone but Epic.
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Apple has nothing to do with this (+2)
SuperKendall 5 hours ago
Fortnite is instilled on the Mac through Epic's own store, which you install outside the App Store.
Apple has absolutely nothing to do with Fortnite being disabled on the Mac, it's 100% on Epic.
This is where class action suites from users should start up...
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Re: Apple has nothing to do with this (+1)
Cmdln Daco 3 hours ago
Is 'Save the World' mode playable from the Fortnite Mac binaries that you can download for free from Epic? I only have 'Save the World' on my Windows system that I paid for directly from Epic and I never play the free version of Fortnite. Possibly did Epic utilize a 'paywall' on STW for the Mac by selling it on the App store?
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Re: Apple has nothing to do with this 
Anonymous Coward 2 hours ago
installed, suits... drunk?
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Re: Unless Epic published it in the Mac App Store.. 
Anonymous Coward an hour ago
"Sideloading" an Android app is as simple as tapping the apk and enabling unknown sources when prompted. It's not even "sideloading" since Android is designed to be open and allow users to control it, unlike anything from Crapple.
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LOL! 
Anonymous Coward 7 hours ago
This just keeps on getting better! :D
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YAWN 
Anonymous Coward 6 hours ago
How? macs and games, two of the most irrelevant things in the universe.
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First streaming boxes now this (+1)
Malays2 bowman 7 hours ago
Seems like we are entering an era of "the new bad old days" where computing is heavily balkanized and one service/game won't run on certain boxes when there is no technical reason for it to be the case. Just because of some 'dispute'.
Do I miss the shitfest that was home computing/gaming in the early 1980s? Nope.
Do I want a return to those days? Nope.
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Re: First streaming boxes now this 
Anonymous Coward 22 minutes ago
It has been happening for a while now. Between console exclusivity agreements and the fact that game companies have a 0% piracy rate on consoles make those quite attractive to the game makers, coupled with "gamers" who are more than happy to pay ever-hiked prices for buggy content that requires multitudes of DLC and microtransactions, as well as forcing new console purchases every few years.
I have been hoping for another 1983 for the game industry, and a return to the PC, because a humble PC or Mac will run rings around any console out there. With we squarely in a Greater Depression, who is going to be spending the cash for these new consoles, the monthly fee to have access to the consoles, the game itself, the DLC, and all the other crap the console makers pile on.
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Re: First streaming boxes now this (+1)
Malays2 bowman a few seconds ago
" "gamers" who are more than happy to pay ever-hiked prices for buggy content that requires multitudes of DLC and microtransactions, as well as forcing new console purchases every few years.
I have been hoping for another 1983 for the game industry, and a return to the PC, "
I'm hoping that all of the bullshit crashes soon and there will be a return to sanity. Really, I do.
However the culture of 1983 is far different than what goes on now. I was around back then playing video games, but I often forget just how much had changed between the 80's and the 90's and now. People now had years of conditioning to accept and not even think about the stuff that would have gotten a company tarred and feathered back then.
Always on internet required DRM would've been unthinkable 20, 30 years ago but people now routinely deal with it and ask for more with their wallets. Loot boxes were unheard of outside the Evercrack community, though these were people selling their in game characters and accounts for real world money going against the company's TOS (IIRC).
The 80's and 90s were not without it's own bullshit such as nasty anti-copy floppy disk schemes that sometimes could knock the drive's head out of alignment, and hardware dongles for database programs and other high end software, but there was no constant phoning home to the man just to get the prog to start up either. And players didn;t have to keep their wallets open wide outside the arcade enviroment so Mario could see if the princess is in the next castle. Such nonsense which is acceptable now would have shuttered a company back then.
Computers were very expensive back then, and so was software. I'm talking months of salary expensive. They would never allow or tolerate the kind of routine abuse of today. Today, it's cheap throwaway junk and there isn't the kind of investment and incentive to protect it now vs back then.
Damn, I didn't mean to ramble, but the forces that caused the 1983 crash just don't exist this time around.
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The Internet has died. (-1)
Anonymous Coward 7 hours ago
(TrueScore: 4, Truthful)
This is what to expect from attempting to use the Internet as of 2020:
* As I loaded the page for my own question on Stack Exchange after a day or so, it said "0" for the votes. However, when I accidentally opened it in a different "sandbox", not logged in, it said "-2". I reloaded both pages again to make sure it wasn't some temporary glitch. In other words, they don't even let you see the correct number of votes anymore...
.
* Countless web pages no longer even let me load them to passively consume their garbage content without displaying the CloudFlare mafia's nagscreen of death, with the Google reCAPTCHA spyware mocking you with its presence. I never even bother anymore. (Some sites don't even show that, and just flat-out block you with some nonsensical drivel about "security"...)
.
* I keep getting locked out of accounts when companies start using Google's reCAPTCHA even for logging in. All attempts to contact the companies in question in order for them to have my account "whitelisted" from having to jump through these hoops have been unsuccessful. Google must track every single mouse click, and blocking it means you can't even attempt to get past their harassments...
.
* I was told to use Telegram, so I went to their site, surprisingly found an actual desktop application, downloaded and ran it... only to be immediately told to "enter my phone number". No "dismiss" or "skip" button. Next course of action? Uninstall.
.
* As a "nice" little Christmas present for 2019, I discovered that Instagram now demands an account and to be logged in to even just view profiles/photos at all! In other words, since Instagram (and all the other giants) consistently refuse all new accounts (unless you are fully tracked), it's no longer possible to use Instagram.
.
* As with countless other "decentralized" things, I looked into The Federation / Fediverse. From their site: "we expect sites we list to have a humane code of conduct in place. Should sites who fail to ban content that can be found generally harmful, that node will be blocked from listing here." That makes no sense grammatically, but it continues: "Harmful content can be, but not limited to, malware, graphical material of minors, abusive images, hateful content, racist content and climate denialism." In other words, the whole thing is controlled by the exact same truth-suffocating, hateful scumbags as the centralized giants, rendering it utterly pointless.
.
* PayPal are literally thieves. I had a very old account, with "Premium" (I believe that's what they called it) status even, which they one day locked me out of. No explanation. No responses whatsoever to my questions about what they were doing or why. Total, utter silence. They kept all of the money in the account and I could never again use it in any way. (To add insult to injury, they have kept sending me regular automated spam e-mails ever since.) Years later, when I tried to buy some software which happened to use PayPal as their card payment processor (that is, not their normal accounts), I was denied by their system because they had permanently banned my Visa card as well from ever making any transactions through their system...
.
* The local auction site was bought by eBay a few years ago. I then tried to sell an item using my account created in 2003... only to be spat in the face with yet another "upload government photo ID to continue" message -- after I had spent hours upon hours creating and perfecting the description, photos, etc. For an account that was 10+ years old. With nothing but positive feedback on every transaction. I immediately ceased using it forever.
.
* I created an account at Mixer (video streaming, hoping that it would suck less than Twitch). Much to my initial surprise, it actually did let me register, and even sent the activation e-mail whose link I followed. However, when trying to log in to the "created" account, it then lets you know that "This e-mail address isn't allowed". Not another word. Just that. As if it were the registration form.
.
* I live in an alleged "First World" country. Every time I attempt to purchase an item from any other country, the Visa debit (not even credit) card payment is blocked with a random vague message such as "The transaction has been declined". I then have to manually log in to my bank's website, with the dongle, navigate through a maze of links (they actively block any attempt to bookmark any specific page), find an obscure feature called "allow insecure Internet payments for 60 minutes", click a bunch of times, and finally repeat the order. Now it appears to go through, but always displays an intermediate Visa page ("3-D Secure") where I'm forced to enter all kinds of numbers into my dongle and Internet bank. It varies slightly each time how exactly this is done. Then the order finally goes through. I get the normal "Thanks for your purchase!" confirmation e-mails, etc. However, after a little while, I get a new e-mail saying that "further verification is required" for the order to actually go through, and if I don't send a scanned photo ID within X days, the order will be automatically canceled...
.
The conclusion? The Internet, and computers as we know them, are over. I see no signs pointing to a brighter future.
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Re: The Internet has died. (+1)
peragrin 7 hours ago
Wow you have the exact same visa card year s later? How do you get a card that doesn't expire?
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Epic is losing this one (+2)
mveloso 7 hours ago
They're losing a ton of money. By the time the case gets to court everyone would have forgotten Fortnite and will have moved on to other games.
This could be a case study on how do kill the golden goose.
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Re: Epic is losing this one (+1)
dgatwood 6 hours ago
They're making most of their money from their games on gaming consoles (like ~90%, IIRC). If they lose, they've lost at most 10% of their sales.
If they win, on the other hand, they'll either be able to reduce their prices by ~27% across all closed platforms (because this will be a pretty strong precedent that such behavior wouldn't be allowed on gaming consoles, either) or, at their option, increase their profit margin on those platforms by 39%. Even if they never get back a single one of those lost iOS and Mac customers, that's still on the order of a 3:1 reward to risk ratio.
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Re: Epic is losing this one 
Anonymous Coward 6 hours ago
Since risk is likelihood * severity, I'd say Epic's suit just got a lot riskier. Ruth Bader Ginsburg just died.
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Re: Epic is losing this one (+1)
ArmoredDragon 3 hours ago
I doubt they're losing all that much. All of nobody is a serious gamer on a mac owing to the crappy GPU selection, so even if we assume a lot of players use Macs, it's unlikely they're big freemium spenders, which is what fortnight depends on. I can almost guarantee you that this skews heavily towards PC and console users.
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What's a mac? 
gavron 6 hours ago
"What's a mac?" - Asked someone in 2022.
Bye Apple. You lost your live thief and your karma. Good luck, Tim Apple.
E
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Who cares? (+1)
times05 6 hours ago
Seriously though.... who buys an iphone to play 3d shooters?..... or a phone in general?
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Re: Who cares? (+1)
Rockoon 6 hours ago
Hey there.

So I see you giving your opinion on the matter of macOS and Apples desktops... by only referencing their phones.
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Good (+1)
presearch 6 hours ago
The game sucked anyway.
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Did Epic break Apple Developer Licence? (-1, Troll)
WhyArePeopleSoUnkind 5 hours ago
1. Epic knowingly and purposely broke their Licencing agreement with Apple.
2. Epic had a marketing campaign + lawyers at the ready.
3. There are better phones for gaming than Apple makes. https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/...
4. There are better computers for gaming than those that Apple currently make.
5. Security is not a joke.
6. Allowing random payment channels; is not good for control (but is great for competition)
7. Trojan malware libraries are not unheard of. example CamScanner, Xavier
8. I use Linux Mint on my Desktop
9. I have never played Fornite. my reflects are shocking.
10. I use an iPhone.
So what does this imply?
11. (1 + 2) -> Epic is not a trusted Apple Developer
12. (11 + 6)-> Libraries and services by Epic cannot be trusted on the Apple Platform.
13. (3 + 4 + 12) -> Epic makes lots of money elsewhere
Epic's Lawyer know what they are doing and they must be aware of all the implications.
I can't see how Epic will win this, Apple has more at stake than just the revenue.
But then again it is a crazy world, and all Epic's lawyer must have a game plan.
*8~)
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Re: Did Epic break Apple Developer Licence? (+1)
DontBeAMoran 4 hours ago
9. I have never played Fornite. my reflects are shocking.
Well, stop looking at yourself in a mirror, then.
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Re: Did Epic break Apple Developer Licence? (+1)
NoMoreACs 2 hours ago
But then again it is a crazy world, and all Epic's lawyer must have a game plan.
Sure they do. It can be summed up in two words:
Billable Hours.
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Epic battles are profitable (+1)
WaffleMonster 5 hours ago
Epic is probably getting more users simply out of curiosity from people hearing in the news about the game and its role in legal fights with Apple and Google.
--
Single vendor app store monopolies need to die.
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The fix is simple (+1)
nehumanuscrede 4 hours ago
Adhere to the rules you agreed to when you launched your game on Apples platform.
You don't get to grow your userbase to level X, then change the rules so you can cut out the very people who made your platform possible.
If you don't like those rules, make your own phones, write your own platform and do what you will.
Additionally, in the unlikely event Epic comes out on top of this, do you think they will allow 3rd parties to sell V-Bucks ( or whatever the currency is ) inside of Fortnite without paying Epic in the process ? Do you really think Epic would agree to the very thing they're demanding from Apple ?
I doubt it.
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Re: The fix is simple (+1)
h33t l4x0r 4 hours ago
The app store rules keep changing, so they are not the same rules they agreed to at launch. They changed this week.
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Re: The fix is simple 
v1 3 hours ago
The rules that Epic violated have always been in the list. And they're not just little fine print buried near the bottom, these are huuuge bullet points that very clearly warn you that you will get the boot if you violate them.
And yes, Apple does update their terms somewhat often. And just like any wall of fine print you see when you install a game update, you scroll through the mindless fine print, check the box that says "I agree", and life goes on. Rarely is there anything in there that will affect you. (and when there is, someone usually spots it immediately, and there's a big media blowup about it for a few days before everyone forgets about it)
Epic thinks they're big enough to Alter The Deal, and are finding out the hard way that there are some people they have to do business with that are big enough that they won't just cave in and give Epic whatever they want. It's difficult to say for sure what it is that they really want out of this - maybe they just want some publicity? (they got it!) or to try to threaten Apple (unsuccessfully) with some bad press if they don't concede some special treatment? Or maybe they're trying to improve their image by looking like the David fighting Goliath? Only their lawyers know for sure!
I do like Apple, but honestly I don't care who's on the other end of the stick here. Could be Microsoft. Could be Amazon. Could be Google. Epic's just one of many big fish in a big pond, and playground bully tactics just aren't going to get them an easy victory here. (and that's assuming that's even what they want out of all this?)
I wonder if they're trying to take a page out of Venco's book (in Ironman), where after getting beat up, he says "you lose!" It doesn't seem to be going well for them if that was their goal? I guess time will tell.
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Re: The fix is simple 
the_B0fh 3 hours ago
The part they disagree with, did it change? If not, then what the fuck are you smoking?
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