Re: Was. W.W. Scoggins the only witness at 10th and Patton who actually

On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 at 2:21:25 PM UTC-8, Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon) wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 10:36:55 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote: 
> > On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 3:55:07 AM UTC-8, Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon) wrote: 
> > > On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 11:42:06 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote: 
> > > > On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 6:57:39 AM UTC-8, Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon) wrote: 
> > > > > On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 8:46:27 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote: 
> > > > > > On Thursday, February 25, 2021 at 6:59:14 PM UTC-8, Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon) wrote: 
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 9:18:28 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote: 
> > > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 6:39:37 AM UTC-8, Hank Sienzan CUT 
> > > > 
> > > > > 8. Numerous witnesses put Oswald at the scene of the Tippit shooting. 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Running down the alley and running down Jefferson, too, a bit earlier. 
> > > > Nice! 
> > > 
> > > You mean a bit later. 
> > 
> > No. It would be the perp running down Jefferson, then the vigilante 
> > chasing him down the alley and cutting to Jefferson through the old house.
> You identified the vigilante earlier as Scoggins, but he looks nothing 
> like the teenager described by one of the Davis girls. Your argument 
> makes no sense. Scoggins never said he picked up the gun, and any 
> vigilante had no reason to discard bullets (Tippit never fired his weapon) 
> from Tippit's revolver in any case. The actions as reported by the 
> witnesses don't match your so-called vigilante. They do match the gunman 
> fleeing the scene.
> > 
> > How does this eliminate Oswald as the person they 
> > > saw? 
> > > 
> > 
> > I don't think I necessarily said it did. But it indicates that there were 
> > a lot fewer Oswald sightings (if any) in around 10th & Patton that day. 
> > At least 6 simply saw the vigilante.
> And then identified Oswald as the person in the lineup? Scoggins looks 
> nothing like Oswald.
> > > > 
> > > > > 9. The hard evidence of the shells puts Oswald as Tippit's killer. 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Soft. 
> > > 
> > > Bullet shells are made of metal and thus are hard. They retain their 
> > > characteristics from the weapon that fired them and tests can link or 
> > > eliminate particular shells to a particular weapon. The shells in evidence 
> > 
> > Ah! "the shells in evidence". Not the same as the shells found at the 
> > scene.... 
> > 
> > 
> > > are linked to the revolver taken off Oswald to the exclusion of all other 
> > > weapons in the world. 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > You need to claim all these people (and others) are part of the frame-up 
> > > > > of Oswald to make Oswald go all the way to Oak Cliff on McWatters bus. 
> > > > > What evidence do you have that they all colluded in this way? 
> > > 
> > > You apparently have no evidence. You punted here. 
> > > 
> > > And we can see above that is exactly what your are doing. McWatters, 
> > > Jones, Bledsoe, Roberts, the bus transfer, the Davis girls, Whaley, the 
> > > LEOs who interrogated Oswald, the shells, the experts who examined the 
> > > shells, the witnesses who IDed Oswald in lineups... all part of a frameup 
> > > of Oswald while they all conspired to frame an innocent man 
> > 
> > Guilty in Dealey.
> We're not talking about Dealey Plaza. We're discussing the Tippit 
> shooting. 
> 
> You're trying to change the subject. 
> 
> So let me repeat my point:
> And we can see above that is exactly what your are doing. McWatters, 
> Jones, Bledsoe, Roberts, the bus transfer, the Davis girls, Whaley, the
> LEOs who interrogated Oswald, the revolver shells, the experts who 
> examined the revolver shells, the witnesses who IDed Oswald as Tippit's 
> killer in lineups... all part of a frameup of Oswald while they all 
> conspired to frame an innocent man for killing a police officer?
> > 
> > 
> > and left the 
> > > guilty party on the street to perhaps kill other LEOs. 
> > >
> And now we know why you responded above as you did ("Guilty in Dealey") 
> but ignored the final 13 words in my point that make it clear I was 
> talking about the Tippit murder. You can't come out and say, "Yeah, all 
> those people got together to frame Oswald for the Tippit murder", but 
> that's exactly what you've been arguing for in this thread (and 
> elsewhere).
> > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > A bit fat nothing. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Can you even get Oswald from the bus route in Oak Cliff to Jefferson and 
> > > > > Brewer's shoe store in about seven minutes? What is the closest point to 
> > > > > Brewer's shoe store along the bus route? What is the distance? 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I have him arriving at the rooming house about 1:11, the theater about 
> > > > 1:35, allowing him time to duck out of sight of cop cars. 
> > > 
> > > You didn't answer any of the questions I asked. Earlier in this thread you have Oswald on the bus until about 1:23. How does he get to the rooming house at 1:10 then? 
> > > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.assassination.jfk/c/vHtMMDoZ45Q/m/-XqACU9TAQAJ 
> > > == QUOTE == 
> > > If Jones isn't on Oswald's bus, then it was in fact Oswald who took McWatters' bus all the way to Oak Cliff, getting there about 1:23, as I detail in "Only Oswald...." 
> > Sounds like I was misquoting myself, or my words were taken out of 
> > context.
> I provided the link. They weren't taken out of context by me. I quoted 
> what you said. You argued for Oswald getting to Oak Cliff (not 10th and 
> Patton) by 1:23.

You misread, or I was unclear, or both.

See the following:

> > The 1:23 time is for an Oswald leaving the house about 1:13 and 
> > taking about 10 minutes to walk to 10th & Patton. But then I have him 
> > walking, instead, as I believe he did, directly to the theater and 
> > arriving there "about 1:35". The 1:23 time is to show that he would have 
> > been too late to 10th & Patton to have shot Tippit. 
> > 
> > > == UNQUOTE == 
> > > 
> > > Your own argument here winds up putting Oswald and Jones on the same bus 
> > > because, as you note, Oswald couldn't get to the rooming house by 1:10pm 
> > > (YOUR own estimate) otherwise. 
> > 
> > Huh?
> You put Oswald getting to Oak Cliff at 1:23. That makes him too late to 
> get to the rooming house in Oak Cliff by 1:10 or 1:11. That means he must 
> have left the bus, caught Whaley's cab, and arrived at the rooming house 
> at about 1:00pm as exactly all the evidence indicates.

This is the statement in question:

"The WR (p165) times the walk, "at a brisk pace", from 1026 N. Beckley to
10th & Patton at about 12 or 13 minutes. That would put the bus-to-Oak
Cliff Oswald there about 1:23."

First, let me stipulate that I posited a cab-to-Oak Cliff Oswald and a bus-to-Oak Cliff Oswald.  I should have said, "That would put the bus-to-Oak Cliff Oswald AT 10TH & PATTON" [instead of just "there"] about 1:23."
 
The previous paragraph (in the original post) clarifies.  

"So a six-minute walk (p163)
for cab Oswald from Neely & Beckley to the rooming house would also be
about a six-minute walk from Marsalis & 5th, which latter would put bus
Oswald at the house at about 1:11."


dcw