Re: Was. W.W. Scoggins the only witness at 10th and Patton who actually

On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 10:54:45 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 at 2:21:25 PM UTC-8, Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon) wrote: 
> > On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 10:36:55 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote: 
> > > On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 3:55:07 AM UTC-8, Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon) wrote: 
> > > > On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 11:42:06 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote: 
> > > > > On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 6:57:39 AM UTC-8, Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon) wrote: 
> > > > > > On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 8:46:27 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote: 
> > > > > > > On Thursday, February 25, 2021 at 6:59:14 PM UTC-8, Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon) wrote: 
> > > > > > > > On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 9:18:28 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote: 
> > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 6:39:37 AM UTC-8, Hank Sienzan CUT 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 8. Numerous witnesses put Oswald at the scene of the Tippit shooting. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Running down the alley and running down Jefferson, too, a bit earlier. 
> > > > > Nice! 
> > > > 
> > > > You mean a bit later. 
> > > 
> > > No. It would be the perp running down Jefferson, then the vigilante 
> > > chasing him down the alley and cutting to Jefferson through the old house. 
> > You identified the vigilante earlier as Scoggins, but he looks nothing 
> > like the teenager described by one of the Davis girls. Your argument 
> > makes no sense. Scoggins never said he picked up the gun, and any 
> > vigilante had no reason to discard bullets (Tippit never fired his weapon) 
> > from Tippit's revolver in any case. The actions as reported by the 
> > witnesses don't match your so-called vigilante. They do match the gunman 
> > fleeing the scene. 
   
** Ignored my point **
    
> > > 
> > > How does this eliminate Oswald as the person they 
> > > > saw? 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > I don't think I necessarily said it did. But it indicates that there were 
> > > a lot fewer Oswald sightings (if any) in around 10th & Patton that day. 
> > > At least 6 simply saw the vigilante. 
> > And then identified Oswald as the person in the lineup? Scoggins looks 
> > nothing like Oswald. 
   
** Ignored my point **
    
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 9. The hard evidence of the shells puts Oswald as Tippit's killer. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Soft. 
> > > > 
> > > > Bullet shells are made of metal and thus are hard. They retain their 
> > > > characteristics from the weapon that fired them and tests can link or 
> > > > eliminate particular shells to a particular weapon. The shells in evidence 
> > > 
> > > Ah! "the shells in evidence". Not the same as the shells found at the 
> > > scene....

Unproven assumption on your part. 
  
  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > are linked to the revolver taken off Oswald to the exclusion of all other 
> > > > weapons in the world. 
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > You need to claim all these people (and others) are part of the frame-up 
> > > > > > of Oswald to make Oswald go all the way to Oak Cliff on McWatters bus. 
> > > > > > What evidence do you have that they all colluded in this way? 
> > > > 
> > > > You apparently have no evidence. You punted here. 
> > > > 
> > > > And we can see above that is exactly what your are doing. McWatters, 
> > > > Jones, Bledsoe, Roberts, the bus transfer, the Davis girls, Whaley, the 
> > > > LEOs who interrogated Oswald, the shells, the experts who examined the 
> > > > shells, the witnesses who IDed Oswald in lineups... all part of a frameup 
> > > > of Oswald while they all conspired to frame an innocent man 
> > > 
> > > Guilty in Dealey. 
> > We're not talking about Dealey Plaza. We're discussing the Tippit 
> > shooting. 
> > 
> > You're trying to change the subject. 
> > 
> > So let me repeat my point: 
> > And we can see above that is exactly what your are doing. McWatters, 
> > Jones, Bledsoe, Roberts, the bus transfer, the Davis girls, Whaley, the 
> > LEOs who interrogated Oswald, the revolver shells, the experts who 
> > examined the revolver shells, the witnesses who IDed Oswald as Tippit's 
> > killer in lineups... all part of a frameup of Oswald while they all 
> > conspired to frame an innocent man for killing a police officer? 
   
** Ignored my point **
    
> > > 
> > > 
> > > and left the 
> > > > guilty party on the street to perhaps kill other LEOs. 
> > > > 
> > And now we know why you responded above as you did ("Guilty in Dealey") 
> > but ignored the final 13 words in my point that make it clear I was 
> > talking about the Tippit murder. You can't come out and say, "Yeah, all 
> > those people got together to frame Oswald for the Tippit murder", but 
> > that's exactly what you've been arguing for in this thread (and 
> > elsewhere). 
   
** Ignored my point **
    
> > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > A bit fat nothing. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Can you even get Oswald from the bus route in Oak Cliff to Jefferson and 
> > > > > > Brewer's shoe store in about seven minutes? What is the closest point to 
> > > > > > Brewer's shoe store along the bus route? What is the distance? 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I have him arriving at the rooming house about 1:11, the theater about 
> > > > > 1:35, allowing him time to duck out of sight of cop cars. 
> > > > 
> > > > You didn't answer any of the questions I asked. Earlier in this thread you have Oswald on the bus until about 1:23. How does he get to the rooming house at 1:10 then? 
> > > > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.assassination.jfk/c/vHtMMDoZ45Q/m/-XqACU9TAQAJ 
> > > > == QUOTE == 
> > > > If Jones isn't on Oswald's bus, then it was in fact Oswald who took McWatters' bus all the way to Oak Cliff, getting there about 1:23, as I detail in "Only Oswald...." 
> > > Sounds like I was misquoting myself, or my words were taken out of 
> > > context. 
> > I provided the link. They weren't taken out of context by me. I quoted 
> > what you said. You argued for Oswald getting to Oak Cliff (not 10th and 
> > Patton) by 1:23.
> You misread, or I was unclear, or both. 

I didn't misread it. I quoted precisely what you said. You put the bus 
getting to Oak Cliff at 1:23.
  

> 
> See the following:
> > > The 1:23 time is for an Oswald leaving the house about 1:13 and 
> > > taking about 10 minutes to walk to 10th & Patton. But then I have him 
> > > walking, instead, as I believe he did, directly to the theater and 
> > > arriving there "about 1:35". The 1:23 time is to show that he would have 
> > > been too late to 10th & Patton to have shot Tippit. 
> > > 
> > > > == UNQUOTE == 
> > > > 
> > > > Your own argument here winds up putting Oswald and Jones on the same bus 
> > > > because, as you note, Oswald couldn't get to the rooming house by 1:10pm 
> > > > (YOUR own estimate) otherwise. 
> > > 
> > > Huh? 
> > You put Oswald getting to Oak Cliff at 1:23. That makes him too late to 
> > get to the rooming house in Oak Cliff by 1:10 or 1:11. That means he must 
> > have left the bus, caught Whaley's cab, and arrived at the rooming house 
> > at about 1:00pm as exactly all the evidence indicates.
> This is the statement in question: 
> 
> "The WR (p165) times the walk, "at a brisk pace", from 1026 N. Beckley to 
> 10th & Patton at about 12 or 13 minutes. That would put the bus-to-Oak 
> Cliff Oswald there about 1:23." 
> 
> First, let me stipulate that I posited a cab-to-Oak Cliff Oswald and a 
> bus-to-Oak Cliff Oswald. I should have said, "That would put the 
> bus-to-Oak Cliff Oswald AT 10TH & PATTON" [instead of just "there"] 
> about 1:23."

I'll accept your clarification. 
   
 
> 
> The previous paragraph (in the original post) clarifies.
> "So a six-minute walk (p163) 
> for cab Oswald from Neely & Beckley to the rooming house would also be 
> about a six-minute walk from Marsalis & 5th, which latter would put bus 
> Oswald at the house at about 1:11."
> dcw
   
However, since Oswald was arrested with a bus transfer in his pocket, and 
since McWatters said he only gave out one transfer on that trip to a man 
who got off the bus prior to the turn off Elm, Oswald got off the bus and 
did not take it to Oak Cliff.
   
Since the bus transfer found on Oswald matched McWatters unique punch, 
Oswald got off the bus and did not take it to Oak Cliff.
   
Since Oswald admitted in custody he took a bus, then switched to a cab 
when the bus got stuck in traffic, Oswald did not take the bus to Oak 
Cliff.
   
Since Bledsoe recognized Oswald on the bus and said he left the bus after 
only a few blocks, Oswald did not take the bus to Oak Cliff.
   
So there is no "bus-to-Oak Cliff Oswald". Only a "bus-to-cab-to Oak Cliff 
Oswald".

Hank