Re: In which Sgt. Hill shoots himself in the foot with an automatic

On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 7:05:05 PM UTC-7, Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zir=
con) wrote:
> On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 6:13:18 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:=20
> > On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 6:11:35 PM UTC-7, John Corbett wrote:=20
> > > On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 3:26:08 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote:=
=20
> > > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 8:03:33 PM UTC-7, John Corbett wrote:=
=20
> > > > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 3:40:35 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrot=
e:=20
> > > > > > In which Sgt. Hill shoots himself in the foot with an automatic=
=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Witness Domingo Benavides, DPD Patrolman Joe M. Poe, and DPD Sg=
t. Gerald=20
> > > > > > Hill were in perfect agreement at the Warren Commission hearing=
s.=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Benavides: "[The suspect] had just got back to the sidewalk whe=
n he threw=20
> > > > > > he first [shell], and when he threw the second one, he had alre=
ady cut=20
> > > > > > back into the yard." (v6p450)=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Poe: "[Benavides] told me [the suspect] was running out across =
this lawn.=20
> > > > > > He was unloading his pistol as he ran." (v7p68)=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Hill: "Poe showed me a Winston cigarette package that contained=
 three=20
> > > > > > spent jackets from shells that he said a citizen had pointed ou=
t to him=20
> > > > > > where the suspect had reloaded his gun and dropped these in he =
grass."=20
> > > > > > (v7p48-49) So it would seem that the gunman was carrying a revo=
lver: The=20
> > > > > > shells were manually discarded.=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > And yet, at 1:41, Hill radioed that the "shells at the scene in=
dicate that=20
> > > > > > the suspect is armed with an automatic 38, rather than a pistol=
." (DPD=20
> > > > > > radio logs)=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > First desperate move: Hill denied, at the Commission hearings, =
that he was=20
> > > > > > the one who had sent the transmission: "That probably is R.D. S=
tringer".=20
> > > > > > (v7p57) (Stringer was not called to testify.) Second desperate =
move: And=20
> > > > > > DPD transcriber Sgt. G.D. Henslee attributed the transmission t=
o=20
> > > > > > "Westbrook-Batchelor". (v21p397) (Neither officer testified re =
the=20
> > > > > > transmission.) Much later, Hill finally took responsibility for=
 it: "In a=20
> > > > > > 1986 interview, Hill admitted being the cop behind the strange=
=20
> > > > > > broadcast...." (With Malice, p260)=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > But as far back as 1964, the groundwork was being laid in case =
future=20
> > > > > > investigators looked at future transcriptions of the DPD radio =
logs--for=20
> > > > > > instance, the August 11, 1964 FBI transcription, which properly=
 appended=20
> > > > > > "Sergeant G. Hill" to the transmission. Benavides also testifie=
d that "One=20
> > > > > > of [the shells] went down inside of a bush, and the other one w=
as by the=20
> > > > > > bush"--they were, he says, pretty close together, as shells aut=
omatically=20
> > > > > > ejected would have been. The fact that there were shells on the=
 ground, in=20
> > > > > > the first place, and, in the second, that they were found near =
each other,=20
> > > > > > would indicate, for any future investigation, that they were fr=
om an=20
> > > > > > automatic, and explained the "automatic" on the radio.=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Third desperate move: Supporting this version of the story was =
also the=20
> > > > > > fact that Hill supposedly saw, as he testified, only the cigare=
tte=20
> > > > > > package, and not the shells inside it. Thus the only possible e=
xplanation=20
> > > > > > of that "automatic" seemed to be that the shells were found (a)=
 on the=20
> > > > > > ground and (b) close together. The shells themselves, supposedl=
y, then,=20
> > > > > > did not figure in the 1:41 transmission. Hill hadn't seen them.=
=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Hill and his transmission were insulated by Benavides' testimon=
y, by=20
> > > > > > Henslee's false transcription, and by the ingenious employment =
of the=20
> > > > > > cigarette package. How could he possibly be undone? How? Well, =
he done=20
> > > > > > undid himself.=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > "Asked how he determined that the shells were 38 caliber, Hill =
replied,=20
> > > > > > 'You can tell that from the shell. Thirty-eight's stamped on th=
e bottom of=20
> > > > > > it. I looked on the bottom'." (With Malice p261, author's 1986 =
interview=20
> > > > > > of Hill) All that insulation, up in smoke. All three layers of =
separation=20
> > > > > > between Hill and the shells--poof!=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > But why was such care taken to separate Hill from shells? Dale =
Myers goes=20
> > > > > > on to explain: "Hill's explanation compounds the problem. For i=
f true,=20
> > > > > > Hill would have seen additional stamp impressions. Thirty-eight=
 automatic=20
> > > > > > cartridges are traditionally marked, '38 AUTO'...." (p261)=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Myers then goes on to distract his readers from the "38" issue =
by=20
> > > > > > returning to the relatively simple "automatic" issue: "There is=
 no=20
> > > > > > indication that Hill ever studied the shells to the degree that=
 his later=20
> > > > > > claims suggest. Hill's explanation that the radio transmission =
describing=20
> > > > > > the shells as "automatics" was based on an incorrect assumption=
 is=20
> > > > > > probably very close to the truth." (p261)=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > In other words, Myers has no explanation, other than Hill's, fo=
r the "38".=20
> > > > > > He does not even attempt one. His only recourse is to distract,=
 distract.=20
> > > > > > So, as of now, Hill's explanation--the only one we have, so far=
, in some=20
> > > > > > 57 yea rs--stands: He saw "38" "on the bottom" of the shells. H=
is three=20
> > > > > > layers of separation couldn't keep him from "38 AUTO"....=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > All you have demonstrated is that Hill made a mistake in assuming=
 the=20
> > > > > gunman had fired an automatic and then tried to cover up his mist=
ake.=20
> > > > > People do that all the time. The fact that every witness who obse=
rved the=20
> > > > > gunman as he passed from the front yard to the side yard said he =
was=20
> > > > > unloading the shells as he went indicates the gun wasn't an autom=
atic. He=20
> > > > > wouldn't have to unload shells from an automatic. They eject them=
selves=20
> > > > > and they do that at the location the gun is fired. They would not=
 have=20
> > > > > landed at the location whether the shells were found. ALL the eye=
witnesses=20
> > > > > indicated the gunman had a revolver and all the recovered shells =
were=20
> > > > > fired by Oswald's revolver yet you choose to discard all of that =
and=20
> > > > > fixate instead on an erroneous radio transmission by Hill. Once a=
gain, you=20
> > > > > focus on all the wrong things.=20
> > > > And once again you completely ignore what I actually wrote. In fact=
,=20
> > > > nothing you say indicates that you even read the post. Just brought=
 out=20
> > > > the old rubber stamp again....=20
> > > >=20
> > > I have no idea where you are trying to go with this. You have identif=
ied=20
> > > an anomaly, Hill's erroneous report that Tippit's shooter used an=20
> > > automatic.=20
> > I've done more than that. Wriggle out of the only explanation ever give=
n=20
> > re that "38" in the transmission. Hank tries to do that at the Nuthouse=
,=20
> > but in order to so do he has to make one big assumption....
> What assumption is that, Don?

Here ya go:

Hank:  Sgt. Hill "heard about .38 shells left at the scene and assumed the 
automatic part because they were at the scene."

You're still forgetting this, from the same exchange:

dcw:  "Conveniently, you're forgetting the testimony of Hill, Poe, and 
Benavides. All three testified that they had either seen or heard that the 
suspect was throwing down shells as he left the scene. Throwing them down, 
MANUALLY. Tell me how you "assume the automatic part" from that!"

In 1964, that was all we had, from the Hearings.  How do you get from the 
Hill/Poe/Benavides tale to "automatic 38"?  According to that testimony, 
shells were not just seen at the scene, but the gunman was seen THROWING 
them down.

You assume that Hill "heard about .38 shells left at the scene".  He 
testified only that he heard about shells THROWN DOWN at the scene...


 That the shells aren't swapped? No, that's=20
> the default position.=20
>=20
> You're the one making the big assumption they were swapped. Your=20
> assumption is the unproven and assumed one. The shells are part of the=20
> hard evidence and you don't get to just assume any evidence pointing to=
=20
> Oswald was planted to frame him, but that's exactly what you're doing by=
=20
> concentrating on the discrepancies between the eyewitness statements and=
=20
> ignoring where they agree and additionally what the hard evidence tells=
=20
> us.=20
>=20
> Numerous witnesses agree a revolver was used and emptied by the gunman as=
=20
> he left the scene.

Yes, and one was Benavides, but his tale, told to Poe, who told it to 
Hill, fails the DPD radio "auto 38" test.  So scratch at least one of your 
"numerous witnesses"....

 The hard evidence tells us the shooter was Oswald, as=20
> the shells in evidence match the revolver taken off Oswald in the theatre=
.=20
>=20
> Numerous witnesses agree Oswald was the shooter, as they picked Oswald ou=
t=20
> of a lineup.=20
>=20
> Keep pretending exactly where the shells were discarded/recovered is=20
> important.=20
>=20
> It's not.

Certainly not if you think that facts are malleable....

dcw