Re: 2016 Outback 3.6 dashboard

TheSeeker <[email protected]> wrote:

>> a TPMS tool to sync the different set of tires to the car.  As far as I
>> know, the car records only 1 code per tire position; i.e., you cannot
>> have a code set for winter and another code set for summer.
> 
> But! one can purchase _programmable_ TPMS sensors and 'clone' the existing
> sensors, so that you can have a summer and winter set of tires and change them (all four at once) seasonally without having to re-program the car.
> 
> None of my Subarus track TPMS and tire _position_, so I can rotate positions without causing problems.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Duane
> 
> On Sunday, August 16, 2020 at 12:40:19 AM UTC-5, VanguardLH wrote:
>> <> wrote:
>> 
>>> Do all new cars have this TPMS system?   Does replacing a tire consist
>>> of a trip to a tire dealer plus a trip to a car dealer?   Or does the
>>> tire dealer eal with the TPMS also?  All this I don't want or need.
>> 
>> TPMS has been mandated in the USA since 2008 on all new cars.  Only if
>> you bought a new car before then, or bought a used car that was made
>> before then might TPMS not be used.
>> 
>> Been a long time since I bought tires from just a tire-only store.  The
>> shops I use sell tires and do service, so they have the TPMS tools.  If
>> the battery is dead or the sensor went bad, the new one is likely a
>> generic that has standard scan codes instead of a manufacturer specific
>> unit with unique codes hence making later re-sync easier to do.
>> However, if the sensor has to get replaced (dead battery, damaged) then
>> the tire must be removed from the wheel.  No way to squeeze the sensor
>> package through the tiny hole for the air valve stem.  That incurs labor
>> along with rebalancing the wheel after putting in a new sensor and
>> putting the tire back on.  Then the tech has to sync the new sensor to
>> the car, so the car can connect to and read the sensor.  You can call
>> your favorite car shop or the dealer to get prices on sensor replace and
>> sync.  It won't be cheap per wheel.  Unlike replacing tires on an AWD
>> requires replacing all 4 tires at once, the TPMS sensors can be replaced
>> one at a time.
>> 
>> TPMS sensors aren't particularly accurate.  The recommended tire
>> pressure might be 32 PSI, but the sensor won't fire a warning until the
>> tire is rotating and pressure has dropped to 25 PSI.  When the tires
>> have worn and need replacement, that's a good time to replace all TPMS
>> sensors in all wheels.  TPMS is legally mandated to be present in new
>> cars sold since 2008.  There's nothing mandated that car owners must
>> replace defective or battery-dead sensors.  However, with or without
>> TPMS sensors, you should be checking your tire pressures regularly.  The
>> recommendation is every month, but I usually don't bother until 3 month
>> intervals (because I put very little miles on my cars), or whenever I'm
>> working on or around the car.  I have a digital guage which records the
>> peak air pressure (so I can remove it and then look at the reading) and
>> a small 2-gallon air compressor in the garage, so checking and inflating
>> are pretty easy on the car after sitting in the garage to cool down.
>> PSI also drops about 1 PSI for every 10 degree drop in temperature.  If
>> you drive your car everyday, don't be surprised if you lose 1.5 PSI
>> every month.
>> 
>> If you haven't disconnected the battery since the error codes went away,
>> an OBD tool should be able to check for TPMS error codes from history.
>> I got an OBD2 tool to plug into the OBD port on the car (under the dash
>> on the very left side near the hood release latch) which has an Android
>> app to read error codes, look at history, and other diagnostic data.
>> The OBD meter at the shop will likely be more complex, plus the shop
>> will likely have different models to read different year ranges of cars
>> and different cars to understand the data.  I'd have to do the same
>> online search to find out what are the codes for TPMS errors.
>> 
>> If the dash indicators went out, that was because you corrected the low
>> pressure by inflating the tires up to their recommended PSI (fronts are
>> often different than rears).  That indicates the battery is okay in the
>> TPMS sensor(s) inside the affected tires.  TPMS is still working.  I
>> wouldn't recommend deflating the tires down to 25 PSI and drive around
>> (to activate the sensors) to see if the light comes back on.  If you
>> keep the tires properly inflated, you won't see those indicators again.
>> However, you said it's a 2016 Subie.  If you haven't changed the tires
>> since buying it new then you're probably about due for new tires
>> depending on your daily average mileage.  Figure to replace the TPMS
>> sensors in all wheels when you get a new set of tires.  No point in
>> paying for a new set of tires plus installation and balancing while
>> keeping the sensors to only have to remove the tires to replace them a
>> year or two later.  
>> 
>> If you swap tire sets, like between winter and summer sets, you'll need
>> a TPMS tool to sync the different set of tires to the car.  As far as I
>> know, the car records only 1 code per tire position; i.e., you cannot
>> have a code set for winter and another code set for summer.

Makes me wonder how many codes they are, like are they tied to the
manufacturer's ID, model ID, and then a serial number the manufacturer
never duplicates.  Else, seems you could pickup someone else's
transmission from their TPMS sensors when driving or idling next to
other cars.

At that point when you install the programmable TPMS sensors, you might
as well go with the non-programmable TPMS sensors if they are cheaper,
plus the non-programmable ones wouldn't require any tools to code them.
Just use the IDs from the non-programmable ones.  After all, you'll be
removing the tires from the wheels to put in the programmable ones (and
you'll still need to record what IDs you recorded into them), so just
put in the non-programmable ones and record their IDs.  Whether you
program them or use fixed IDs, you'll still have to know what are the
IDs, so I don't see the advantage of programmability.  

Also, since the TPMS tool will scan for the IDs, I don't see why you
care if the sensors are programmable or not.  How are you going to
program sensors to set their IDs without a TPMS tool?  Since the IDs get
matched up to their position (FR, FL, RR, RL), how are you going to sync
the IDs when (not if) the tires get rotated?  Maybe that's why the
indirect TPMS systems are making a comeback, because no interior sensor
is need that use batteries that die after awhile and the position of the
tire is irrelevant.

At first, the TPMS sensors were the direct type.  They went inside the
tire on the wheel.  Later came the indirect TPMS systems that don't have
a sensor inside the tire.  For example, Honda Accord models used direct
sensors until 2013 when they switched to an indirect TPMS system.

https://www.tirereview.com/indirect-tpms-imports/
"Indirect Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems (TPMS) are the systems that
do not have air pressure sensors inside the tires. Rather, they detect a
low tire by comparing relative wheel speeds via the Anti-lock Brake
System (ABS) wheel speed sensors. When a tire loses air, its diameter
decreases slightly." 

I went to a car parts site and searched on "tpms" and selected 2016
Subaru Outlook 3.6 for the car model.  Direct sensors came up, so the
OP's car has a direct TPMS system.  Eventually the batteries die, so the
sensors must get replaced whether programmable or not.  Since the IDs
can be read off the sensors when replaced, don't see the advantage of
paying more for programmable ones, plus how are you going to reprogram
them when the tires get rotated?  From what I've seen, the TPMS tools
aren't cheap.  For example, the OTC 3838 costs over $800.  There are
cheaper TPMS tools, like the Autotel TS501 for $225.  I've never
bothered with this TPMS stuff, especially since I don't want to buy the
tools to use once in a blue moon.  My tires get rotated at the car shop,
new tires get mounted by the car shop (at which point new TPMS sensors
should be installed since they only last 5-7 years, so would be dead
with the next set of tires), and if there was a TPMS problem then I let
the car shop handle it.  They have the tools, because they expect to use
them on LOTS of cars, not just mine.