Re: 2016 Outback 3.6 dashboard

On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 1:34:02 PM UTC-5, VanguardLH wrote:

Dear Sir,

Like I said:
"None of my Subarus track TPMS and tire _position_, so I can rotate positions without causing problems."

I have a 2014 Forester and a 2017 Legacy. I can swap the set of summer tires for winter ones and vice-versa (even putting tires in different positions on the car), without doing any programming at all.

Sincerely,
Duane

> TheSeeker <> wrote:
> 
> >> a TPMS tool to sync the different set of tires to the car.  As far as I
> >> know, the car records only 1 code per tire position; i.e., you cannot
> >> have a code set for winter and another code set for summer.
> > 
> > But! one can purchase _programmable_ TPMS sensors and 'clone' the existing
> > sensors, so that you can have a summer and winter set of tires and change them (all four at once) seasonally without having to re-program the car.
> > 
> > None of my Subarus track TPMS and tire _position_, so I can rotate positions without causing problems.
> > 
> > Sincerely,
> > Duane
> > 
> > On Sunday, August 16, 2020 at 12:40:19 AM UTC-5, VanguardLH wrote:
> >> <> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Do all new cars have this TPMS system?   Does replacing a tire consist
> >>> of a trip to a tire dealer plus a trip to a car dealer?   Or does the
> >>> tire dealer eal with the TPMS also?  All this I don't want or need.
> >> 
> >> TPMS has been mandated in the USA since 2008 on all new cars.  Only if
> >> you bought a new car before then, or bought a used car that was made
> >> before then might TPMS not be used.
> >> 
> >> Been a long time since I bought tires from just a tire-only store.  The
> >> shops I use sell tires and do service, so they have the TPMS tools.  If
> >> the battery is dead or the sensor went bad, the new one is likely a
> >> generic that has standard scan codes instead of a manufacturer specific
> >> unit with unique codes hence making later re-sync easier to do.
> >> However, if the sensor has to get replaced (dead battery, damaged) then
> >> the tire must be removed from the wheel.  No way to squeeze the sensor
> >> package through the tiny hole for the air valve stem.  That incurs labor
> >> along with rebalancing the wheel after putting in a new sensor and
> >> putting the tire back on.  Then the tech has to sync the new sensor to
> >> the car, so the car can connect to and read the sensor.  You can call
> >> your favorite car shop or the dealer to get prices on sensor replace and
> >> sync.  It won't be cheap per wheel.  Unlike replacing tires on an AWD
> >> requires replacing all 4 tires at once, the TPMS sensors can be replaced
> >> one at a time.
> >> 
> >> TPMS sensors aren't particularly accurate.  The recommended tire
> >> pressure might be 32 PSI, but the sensor won't fire a warning until the
> >> tire is rotating and pressure has dropped to 25 PSI.  When the tires
> >> have worn and need replacement, that's a good time to replace all TPMS
> >> sensors in all wheels.  TPMS is legally mandated to be present in new
> >> cars sold since 2008.  There's nothing mandated that car owners must
> >> replace defective or battery-dead sensors.  However, with or without
> >> TPMS sensors, you should be checking your tire pressures regularly.  The
> >> recommendation is every month, but I usually don't bother until 3 month
> >> intervals (because I put very little miles on my cars), or whenever I'm
> >> working on or around the car.  I have a digital guage which records the
> >> peak air pressure (so I can remove it and then look at the reading) and
> >> a small 2-gallon air compressor in the garage, so checking and inflating
> >> are pretty easy on the car after sitting in the garage to cool down.
> >> PSI also drops about 1 PSI for every 10 degree drop in temperature.  If
> >> you drive your car everyday, don't be surprised if you lose 1.5 PSI
> >> every month.
> >> 
> >> If you haven't disconnected the battery since the error codes went away,
> >> an OBD tool should be able to check for TPMS error codes from history.
> >> I got an OBD2 tool to plug into the OBD port on the car (under the dash
> >> on the very left side near the hood release latch) which has an Android
> >> app to read error codes, look at history, and other diagnostic data.
> >> The OBD meter at the shop will likely be more complex, plus the shop
> >> will likely have different models to read different year ranges of cars
> >> and different cars to understand the data.  I'd have to do the same
> >> online search to find out what are the codes for TPMS errors.
> >> 
> >> If the dash indicators went out, that was because you corrected the low
> >> pressure by inflating the tires up to their recommended PSI (fronts are
> >> often different than rears).  That indicates the battery is okay in the
> >> TPMS sensor(s) inside the affected tires.  TPMS is still working.  I
> >> wouldn't recommend deflating the tires down to 25 PSI and drive around
> >> (to activate the sensors) to see if the light comes back on.  If you
> >> keep the tires properly inflated, you won't see those indicators again.
> >> However, you said it's a 2016 Subie.  If you haven't changed the tires
> >> since buying it new then you're probably about due for new tires
> >> depending on your daily average mileage.  Figure to replace the TPMS
> >> sensors in all wheels when you get a new set of tires.  No point in
> >> paying for a new set of tires plus installation and balancing while
> >> keeping the sensors to only have to remove the tires to replace them a
> >> year or two later.  
> >> 
> >> If you swap tire sets, like between winter and summer sets, you'll need
> >> a TPMS tool to sync the different set of tires to the car.  As far as I
> >> know, the car records only 1 code per tire position; i.e., you cannot
> >> have a code set for winter and another code set for summer.
> 
> Makes me wonder how many codes they are, like are they tied to the
> manufacturer's ID, model ID, and then a serial number the manufacturer
> never duplicates.  Else, seems you could pickup someone else's
> transmission from their TPMS sensors when driving or idling next to
> other cars.
> 
> At that point when you install the programmable TPMS sensors, you might
> as well go with the non-programmable TPMS sensors if they are cheaper,
> plus the non-programmable ones wouldn't require any tools to code them.
> Just use the IDs from the non-programmable ones.  After all, you'll be
> removing the tires from the wheels to put in the programmable ones (and
> you'll still need to record what IDs you recorded into them), so just
> put in the non-programmable ones and record their IDs.  Whether you
> program them or use fixed IDs, you'll still have to know what are the
> IDs, so I don't see the advantage of programmability.  
> 
> Also, since the TPMS tool will scan for the IDs, I don't see why you
> care if the sensors are programmable or not.  How are you going to
> program sensors to set their IDs without a TPMS tool?  Since the IDs get
> matched up to their position (FR, FL, RR, RL), how are you going to sync
> the IDs when (not if) the tires get rotated?  Maybe that's why the
> indirect TPMS systems are making a comeback, because no interior sensor
> is need that use batteries that die after awhile and the position of the
> tire is irrelevant.
> 
> At first, the TPMS sensors were the direct type.  They went inside the
> tire on the wheel.  Later came the indirect TPMS systems that don't have
> a sensor inside the tire.  For example, Honda Accord models used direct
> sensors until 2013 when they switched to an indirect TPMS system.
> 
> https://www.tirereview.com/indirect-tpms-imports/
> "Indirect Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems (TPMS) are the systems that
> do not have air pressure sensors inside the tires. Rather, they detect a
> low tire by comparing relative wheel speeds via the Anti-lock Brake
> System (ABS) wheel speed sensors. When a tire loses air, its diameter
> decreases slightly." 
> 
> I went to a car parts site and searched on "tpms" and selected 2016
> Subaru Outlook 3.6 for the car model.  Direct sensors came up, so the
> OP's car has a direct TPMS system.  Eventually the batteries die, so the
> sensors must get replaced whether programmable or not.  Since the IDs
> can be read off the sensors when replaced, don't see the advantage of
> paying more for programmable ones, plus how are you going to reprogram
> them when the tires get rotated?  From what I've seen, the TPMS tools
> aren't cheap.  For example, the OTC 3838 costs over $800.  There are
> cheaper TPMS tools, like the Autotel TS501 for $225.  I've never
> bothered with this TPMS stuff, especially since I don't want to buy the
> tools to use once in a blue moon.  My tires get rotated at the car shop,
> new tires get mounted by the car shop (at which point new TPMS sensors
> should be installed since they only last 5-7 years, so would be dead
> with the next set of tires), and if there was a TPMS problem then I let
> the car shop handle it.  They have the tools, because they expect to use
> them on LOTS of cars, not just mine.