Re: Private Property

On 8/11/2026 4:17 PM, dart200 wrote:
> On 8/11/26 3:42 PM, Dude wrote:
>> On 8/11/2026 3:06 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>> On 8/11/26 2:12 PM, Dude wrote:
>>>> On 8/11/2026 1:44 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>> On 8/11/26 10:35 AM, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/10/2026 4:06 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/10/26 9:26 AM, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/10/2026 12:03 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 11:43:59 -0400, Wilson 
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/2026 6:12 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/26 11:28 AM, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/2026 1:34 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/26 8:45 AM, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At its core, free enterprise and a market economy can be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reduced in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many ways to an economic ideology centered around private 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> property.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It gives me extraordinary joy to see how our founders, in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Declaration of Independence, declared that all men 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were "endowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, among 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here, the founders took the natural rights John Locke 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote about in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his Second Treatise of Government in 1690 – "lives, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liberties, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> estates, which I call by the general name, property," and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broadened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it.  They presupposed that property was necessary for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liberty and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the greater aspiration behind private property was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "pursuit of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness" (what we call "human flourishing" in my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tradition).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just weeks before the Declaration of Independence was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> written,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Mason had codified in the Virginia Declaration of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rights that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquiring and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possessing property" were predicates to "pursuing and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obtaining
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness and safety."  The founding fathers were not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> waxing and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> waning philosophically – well, they were not /only/ doing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that –
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they were expressing the lived experience of the settlers 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The lived experience that served as the bedrock of our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nation was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of private ownership driving incentives, of communal 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ownership
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discouraging productive work, and one where resentment was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inevitable when rewards were equal, but effort was not. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Communal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ownership of property had failed in practice because it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was first a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> failed theory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Private property is a natural right that flows from our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earn, hold, possess, retain, and manage the fruits of our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own labor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It produces responsibility, stewardship, and abundance 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that align
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with human nature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David L. Bahnsen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> i love how capitalists love to jerk themselves off about 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> flourishing endlessly while ignoring the fact 7/8 are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> enslaved to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nation-state system that coercively interferes with basic 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> movement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this world is a travesty of authoritarian control all you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can do is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep crying endlessly about private property, as violently 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> owning
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff is the _only_ principle you actually care about
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Self-defense is not the initiation of violence, and as it is 
>>>>>>>>>>>> oriented
>>>>>>>>>>>> towards the protection of life and the thriving of the human 
>>>>>>>>>>>> person,
>>>>>>>>>>>> it is a natural human right.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> you are _not_ your property
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Property as gained by the effort and work of a human being is
>>>>>>>>>>>> inherently a part of that person's life. As such, defense of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> property is also a human right.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> even the person who first came up with that predicated that 
>>>>>>>>>>> right to
>>>>>>>>>>> mixing labor with land to claim property, on there being 
>>>>>>>>>>> enough common
>>>>>>>>>>> lands left for all to utilize...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> which we've gone so far past that you want to keep 7/8 people 
>>>>>>>>>>> on this
>>>>>>>>>>> planet chained to the nation state they were born in without 
>>>>>>>>>>> even the
>>>>>>>>>>> permission to leave.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone who attempts to take away one's property or other 
>>>>>>>>>>>> natural
>>>>>>>>>>>> rights is an enabler of tyranny, and therefore an enemy of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> life and of
>>>>>>>>>>>> humanity.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not keeping them in their home countries. They just can't 
>>>>>>>>>> all come
>>>>>>>>>> here, that's all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ok, lets change the wording a little.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "you want to keep 7/8 people on this
>>>>>>>>> planet chained to nation states where they can have no future, 
>>>>>>>>> no hope
>>>>>>>>> of improvement in their lives without even the permission to go
>>>>>>>>> somewhere better."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, I don't want to keep them "chained to nation states". As far 
>>>>>>>> as I'm concerned they are free to go anywhere that's willing to 
>>>>>>>> accept them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> my god the endless stupidity of capitalist morons refusing to 
>>>>>>> accept responsibility for the bullshit they preach...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> which ofc is expected. a honest person cannot hold the positions 
>>>>>>> of sheeplefried capitalists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not even that attached to the idea of nation-states and kind 
>>>>>>>> of like the idea of free places that are outside of the nation- 
>>>>>>>> state.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In any case, no place is obligated to accept everyone that wants 
>>>>>>>> to go there. The current citizens get a say in the matter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you _are_ the fucking problem wilson. if the richest country on 
>>>>>>> the planet can't "afford" basic freedom of movement, then how in 
>>>>>>> the fuck do you expect others to follow???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ur pathetic "well-wishings" are meaningless platitudes compares 
>>>>>>> to the subethical positions you hold, which are directly causal 
>>>>>>> in chaining 7/8 people on the planet to the nation states of 
>>>>>>> their birth, something they have _zero_ choice
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go get your consensus and then get back to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> why do i have to fix the mess the coercive mess your fucking 
>>>>> ungodly ideology created???
>>>>>
>>>>> where do u think ur next life will end up, eh???
>>>>>
>>>> There's just not much an individual can do to fix the mess you created.
>>>
>>> you could start by advocating for it as a problem instead of 
>>> endlessly denying it's a problem u stupid fuck
>>>
>> You came here for enlightenment?
> 
> there we do dud: i give a suggestion and you just pathetically duck it 
> cause we both know you don't give a single fuck that the "freedom" of 
> capitalism is chaining 7/8 out people to their nation of birth
> 
Over 99.9% of all the people living in nation states support capitalism 
in one form or another in a mixed economy in a free market system.

Almost no sovereign nation operates completely outside of global or 
local capitalist trade today.

Note:

North Korea is the primary modern example of a nation that rejects a 
capitalist economy, relying instead on a strictly state-controlled 
command economy. Cuba also maintains a largely state-run model, though 
it has introduced small economic reforms over time.