Re: Private Property

On 8/11/2026 4:15 PM, dart200 wrote:
> On 8/11/26 3:38 PM, Dude wrote:
>> On 8/11/2026 3:05 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>> On 8/11/26 2:02 PM, Dude wrote:
>>>> On 8/11/2026 1:43 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>> On 8/11/26 11:49 AM, Dude wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/11/2026 10:35 AM, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/10/2026 4:06 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/10/26 9:26 AM, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/10/2026 12:03 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 11:43:59 -0400, Wilson 
>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/2026 6:12 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/26 11:28 AM, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/2026 1:34 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/26 8:45 AM, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At its core, free enterprise and a market economy can be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reduced in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many ways to an economic ideology centered around private 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> property.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It gives me extraordinary joy to see how our founders, in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Declaration of Independence, declared that all men 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were "endowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, among 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here, the founders took the natural rights John Locke 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote about in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his Second Treatise of Government in 1690 – "lives, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liberties, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> estates, which I call by the general name, property," and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broadened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it.  They presupposed that property was necessary for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liberty and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the greater aspiration behind private property was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "pursuit of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness" (what we call "human flourishing" in my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tradition).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just weeks before the Declaration of Independence was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> written,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Mason had codified in the Virginia Declaration of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rights that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acquiring and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possessing property" were predicates to "pursuing and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obtaining
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness and safety."  The founding fathers were not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> waxing and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> waning philosophically – well, they were not /only/ doing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that –
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they were expressing the lived experience of the settlers 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The lived experience that served as the bedrock of our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nation was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of private ownership driving incentives, of communal 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ownership
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discouraging productive work, and one where resentment was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inevitable when rewards were equal, but effort was not. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Communal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ownership of property had failed in practice because it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was first a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> failed theory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Private property is a natural right that flows from our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earn, hold, possess, retain, and manage the fruits of our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own labor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It produces responsibility, stewardship, and abundance 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that align
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with human nature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David L. Bahnsen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i love how capitalists love to jerk themselves off about 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flourishing endlessly while ignoring the fact 7/8 are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enslaved to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nation-state system that coercively interferes with basic 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> movement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this world is a travesty of authoritarian control all you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can do is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep crying endlessly about private property, as violently 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff is the _only_ principle you actually care about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Self-defense is not the initiation of violence, and as it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is oriented
>>>>>>>>>>>>> towards the protection of life and the thriving of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> human person,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is a natural human right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> you are _not_ your property
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Property as gained by the effort and work of a human being is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> inherently a part of that person's life. As such, defense 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> property is also a human right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> even the person who first came up with that predicated that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> right to
>>>>>>>>>>>> mixing labor with land to claim property, on there being 
>>>>>>>>>>>> enough common
>>>>>>>>>>>> lands left for all to utilize...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> which we've gone so far past that you want to keep 7/8 
>>>>>>>>>>>> people on this
>>>>>>>>>>>> planet chained to the nation state they were born in without 
>>>>>>>>>>>> even the
>>>>>>>>>>>> permission to leave.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone who attempts to take away one's property or other 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> natural
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights is an enabler of tyranny, and therefore an enemy of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> life and of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> humanity.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not keeping them in their home countries. They just can't 
>>>>>>>>>>> all come
>>>>>>>>>>> here, that's all.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ok, lets change the wording a little.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "you want to keep 7/8 people on this
>>>>>>>>>> planet chained to nation states where they can have no future, 
>>>>>>>>>> no hope
>>>>>>>>>> of improvement in their lives without even the permission to go
>>>>>>>>>> somewhere better."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, I don't want to keep them "chained to nation states". As 
>>>>>>>>> far as I'm concerned they are free to go anywhere that's 
>>>>>>>>> willing to accept them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> my god the endless stupidity of capitalist morons refusing to 
>>>>>>>> accept responsibility for the bullshit they preach...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> which ofc is expected. a honest person cannot hold the positions 
>>>>>>>> of sheeplefried capitalists.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not even that attached to the idea of nation-states and 
>>>>>>>>> kind of like the idea of free places that are outside of the 
>>>>>>>>> nation- state.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In any case, no place is obligated to accept everyone that 
>>>>>>>>> wants to go there. The current citizens get a say in the matter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you _are_ the fucking problem wilson. if the richest country on 
>>>>>>>> the planet can't "afford" basic freedom of movement, then how in 
>>>>>>>> the fuck do you expect others to follow???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ur pathetic "well-wishings" are meaningless platitudes compares 
>>>>>>>> to the subethical positions you hold, which are directly causal 
>>>>>>>> in chaining 7/8 people on the planet to the nation states of 
>>>>>>>> their birth, something they have _zero_ choice
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Go get your consensus and then get back to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Over 99.9% of all people live in nation states. It's up to them to 
>>>>>> take care of their own, or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The US has no business interfering with any nation states and 
>>>>>> their private property or internal affairs.
>>>>>
>>>>> the US spent most a century interfering with internal affairs to 
>>>>> ensure private property stands as a global norm, no matter the 
>>>>> cost. it's the _only_ thing u fucking braindead apes care about
>>>>>
>>>> Let me be clear:
>>>>
>>>> Libertarians strongly support staying out of international wars and 
>>>
>>> so why'd u elect trump dumbass?
>>>
>>>> foreign affairs. We believe in a foreign policy of non-intervention, 
>>>> peaceful trade, and a strong national defense - rather than foreign 
>>>> military involvement or nation-building.
>>>>
>>>
>>> you don't even believe in ending tariffs let alone opening borders
>>>
>> Obviously, extended conflicts and foreign entanglements lead to bigger 
>> government power, higher taxes, and a loss of personal freedoms at home.
>>
>> Take care of your own business.
> 
> part of my business is ensuring i keep arguing for a better world for my 
> son, u halfwit retard
> 
You came here to argue for a better wrld?

Conservative libertarians argue that military force is strictly 
legitimate only for direct national self-defense.

They apply the non-aggression principle to foreign policy, maintaining 
that a nation—like an individual—has an absolute right to use 
proportional violence to repel an overt, active invasion, but cannot 
justify pre-emptive wars, foreign interventionism, or empire-building.