Re: Israel is not the Church

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Sun, 16 Aug 2026 22:32:42 -0700,
  <[email protected]>
  Noah Wang <[email protected]> wrote:
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[Christrose wrote]:

>>       1. The man of sin has not yet been revealed. He has not set
>>          himself up as God in the rebuilt temple. The temple hasn't
>>          even been rebuilt yet. There is therefore no basis for
>>          concluding the apostasy has already occurred.


Note: This was a response to you citing 2 Thessalonians 2 as a proof 
that believers should flee from the church.

Yet Jesus did not tell anyone to flee until the man of sin has set 
himself up as God in the temple:

      ““So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the
       prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader
       understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the
       mountains.” (Matthew 24:15–16, ESV)

2 Thessalonians 2 clearly describes a time when the temple will have 
already been rebuilt, and the man of God will set himself up as God in 
the temple. Jesus said this was the clue that it's time for "those who 
are in Judea" to flee to the mountains:

• We're not in Judea.
• The temple has not been rebuilt.
• The man of God has not set himself up as God in the temple.
• The temple is not the church.
• Those in Judea are not the church.

Those things all have to happen before Jesus instruction to "flee" will 
apply to "those who are in Judea".


> Many  churches and/or congregations teach that the church is the pillar 
> and foundation of truth from 1 Timothy 3:15 (KJV): "But if I tarry long, 
> that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house 
> of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of 
> the truth."   The churches have effectively supplanted the Bible (GOD) 
> as the pillar and foundation of truth. What is God's response?


Notice, you are no longer responding to the facts about the passage YOU 
cited from 2 Thessalonians 2! When questioned about it and shown that it 
does not say what you claim, you simply switch to a different passage 
and a different argument, without acknowledging the fallacy of your 
previous arguments.

You now switched over to 1 Timothy 3:15 where Paul directly refers to 
the church as the "pillar and ground of the truth". You simply deny 
that, then claim that some Old Testament passage about Tyrus refutes 
what the New Testament itself teaches about the church!


> "Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; 
> Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit 
> in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and 
> not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:"   (The End of 
> the Church Age and After p. 281). "The prince of Tyre represents the 
> pastors, the elders, and the deacons who had been given the spiritual 
> rule of the congregations. God warns these rulers in Ezekiel 28, verse 

> 2."  This is perhaps the greatest high place ever recorded. There are 
> countless other high places in churches such as the use of phony Bibles 
> (Catholic and Orthodox churches some 70 or 80 books in the Bible), signs 
> and wonders, women pastors, bowing down in front of icons, not 
> presenting the whole counsel of God, speaking in tongues and many 
> others.  Obviously, if the church were the pillar and ground of the 
> truth, its doctrines would be in harmony across denominations. Clearly, 
> that is not the case.


Your response is somewhat reasonable if you were merely referring to the 
Catholic/"Orthodox" idea that the church determines what is the truth, 
but you are not allowing for any correct understanding of what Paul 
actually meant when he said the church is the pillar and ground of the 
truth:

Paul is not teaching that the church originates, invents, or sits in 
authority over truth. Truth is eternal and proceeds entirely from God 
Himself. Jesus declared in John 17:17, "Thy word is truth." The church 
does not create God's Word; rather, God's Word creates and establishes 
the church (Ephesians 2:20, James 1:18).

Instead, Paul defines the functional, stewardship role of the local and 
universal assembly in relation to divine revelation. The church 
functions as the pillar and ground of the truth in three specific ways:

 1.

    Holding Truth Up for Display
    Just as a pillar elevates a roof or monument so it can be seen from
    afar, the church is commissioned to hold up the Word of God before a
    fallen world. Through public preaching, teaching, and living out
    sound doctrine, the church makes the truth visible to all men
    (Matthew 5:14-16, Philippians 2:15-16).

 2.

    Defending and Preserving Truth
    A buttress or stay keeps a wall from shifting or falling when under
    external pressure. The context of 1 Timothy involves Timothy
    confronting false teachers in Ephesus (1 Timothy 1:3-4, 4:1-2). The
    church acts as the ground or bulwark of truth by guarding the sacred
    deposit of sound doctrine (1 Timothy 6:20, 2 Timothy 1:13-14),
    refuting error, and maintaining pure doctrine against corruption and
    cultural drift.

 3.

    Providing a Steadfast Witness
    The truth of God is inherently unshakeable, but in human history and
    society, it requires a faithful witness. The church provides the
    earthly setting where God's truth is continually affirmed,
    practiced, and passed down from generation to generation without
    compromise (2 Timothy 2:2).

Summary

God's Word is the authoritative, absolute foundation upon which the 
church is built (Ephesians 2:20). The church is the pillar and ground of 
that truth not by being its source, but by being its custodian, 
defender, and proclaimer. The church supports and displays God's Word 
before the world, ensuring that divine truth is neither hidden nor 
compromised.


-- 
Good News †

Jesus fully satisfied our sin debt to God through His crucifixion 
(Colossians 2:14), a truth confirmed by His resurrection (Romans 1:4). 
Consequently, God maintains His perfect justice while pardoning 
believers (Romans 3:26) and rescuing them from imminent judgment (1 
Thessalonians 1:10). This salvation is an unearned gift received through 
faith (Romans 6:23). Trust in Christ and call upon Him for your 
salvation (Romans 10:9-13):

How to be saved: christrose.news/salvation