Re: [VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

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No wait, the lazy voting thing at Commons is just the same form we use for
code, just with an email plus a 72 hour notice. Makes sense for repository
changes since those are a pain to reverse once the format is changed to git.

On 7 March 2017 at 23:07, Matt Sicker <[email protected]> wrote:

> The -1 thing is mentioned here <https://logging.apache.org/guidelines.html>
> regarding a -1 being a veto for anything consensus-related (generally
> anything to do with adding or removing committers/PMCs). I suppose in that
> context, a mailing list change probably falls under lazy majority, though
> whatever it is we're doing at Commons for lazy votes isn't on that page.
>
> On 7 March 2017 at 22:59, Ralph Goers <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> Note that generally a -1 is a veto only on code commits. On everything
>> else it just means you are against the proposal. However, we generally
>> strive for consensus so great weight is given to binding votes that are
>> opposed.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> On Mar 7, 2017, at 9:23 PM, Matt Sicker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> This is my +1.
>>
>> If this is the incorrect voting format and we need to do a 2/3 majority
>> instead, please veto this and let me know. This situation is not spelled
>> out in the bylaws.
>>
>> On 7 March 2017 at 22:20, Matt Sicker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I may be missing some mailing lists considering I just subscribed to
>>> half of them less than five minutes ago.
>>>
>>> This is a vote to merge the various Apache Logging Services mailing
>>> lists. The proposal is to combine them as follows:
>>>
>>> log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ ->
>>> [email protected]
>>> log4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general@ ->
>>> [email protected]
>>>
>>> commits@ and private@ remain the same as before.
>>>
>>> The proposal would also suggest that the old emails become aliases for
>>> the combined email names so as not to lose any future emails. To
>>> distinguish between projects, a subject tag can be added such as:
>>>
>>> [java]
>>> [net]
>>> [cxx]
>>> [php]
>>>
>>> Though I wouldn't think such a tag is required, though it should help in
>>> gaining the attention of the appropriate audience.
>>>
>>> Voting:
>>>
>>> +1: Yes, combine the mailing lists!
>>> +0: Go ahead, don't care that much.
>>> -0: Don't like it, but not vetoing it.
>>> -1: No, don't do that! I have a better idea!
>>>
>>> This vote follows the same "lazy consensus" (at least 3 +1 binding, no
>>> -1/vetoes) we use for general releases and whatnot. The vote will be open
>>> for at least 72 hours.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Sicker <[email protected]>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt Sicker <[email protected]>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker <[email protected]>
>



-- 
Matt Sicker <[email protected]>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">No wait, the lazy voting thing at Commons is just the same=
 form we use for code, just with an email plus a 72 hour notice. Makes sens=
e for repository changes since those are a pain to reverse once the format =
is changed to git.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote">On 7 March 2017 at 23:07, Matt Sicker <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">The -1 thing =
is mentioned here &lt;<a href=3D"https://logging.apache.org/guidelines.html=
" target=3D"_blank">https://logging.apache.org/<wbr>guidelines.html</a>&gt;=
 regarding a -1 being a veto for anything consensus-related (generally anyt=
hing to do with adding or removing committers/PMCs). I suppose in that cont=
ext, a mailing list change probably falls under lazy majority, though whate=
ver it is we&#39;re doing at Commons for lazy votes isn&#39;t on that page.=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div><div class=3D"h5"><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote">On 7 March 2017 at 22:59, Ralph Goers <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">ralph.goers@ds=
lextreme.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div s=
tyle=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>+1</div><div><br></div><div>Note that ge=
nerally a -1 is a veto only on code commits. On everything else it just mea=
ns you are against the proposal. However, we generally strive for consensus=
 so great weight is given to binding votes that are opposed.</div><span cla=
ss=3D"m_-3934407441196909720HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div>=
<div>Ralph</div></font></span><div><div class=3D"m_-3934407441196909720h5">=
<br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Mar 7, 2017, at 9:23 PM, Matt Si=
cker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">boards@gmail=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_-3934407441196909720m_-395680431957=
4981321Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">This is my +1.<div>=
<br></div><div>If this is the incorrect voting format and we need to do a 2=
/3 majority instead, please veto this and let me know. This situation is no=
t spelled out in the bylaws.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On 7 March 2017 at 22:20, Matt Sicker <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">boards@gmail.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr=
">I may be missing some mailing lists considering I just subscribed to half=
 of them less than five minutes ago.<div><br></div><div>This is a vote to m=
erge the various Apache Logging Services mailing lists. The proposal is to =
combine them as follows:</div><div><br></div><div>log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@,=
 log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ -&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a></div><div>log4j-user@, log4ph=
p-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general@ -&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:use=
[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a></div><d=
iv><br></div><div>commits@ and private@ remain the same as before.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>The proposal would also suggest that the old emails become=
 aliases for the combined email names so as not to lose any future emails. =
To distinguish between projects, a subject tag can be added such as:</div><=
div><br></div><div>[java]</div><div>[net]</div><div>[cxx]</div><div>[php]</=
div><div><br></div><div>Though I wouldn&#39;t think such a tag is required,=
 though it should help in gaining the attention of the appropriate audience=
.</div><div><br></div><div>Voting:</div><div><br></div><div>+1: Yes, combin=
e the mailing lists!</div><div>+0: Go ahead, don&#39;t care that much.</div=
><div>-0: Don&#39;t like it, but not vetoing it.</div><div>-1: No, don&#39;=
t do that! I have a better idea!</div><div><br></div><div>This vote follows=
 the same &quot;lazy consensus&quot; (at least 3 +1 binding, no -1/vetoes) =
we use for general releases and whatnot. The vote will be open for at least=
 72 hours.<span class=3D"m_-3934407441196909720m_-3956804319574981321HOEnZb=
"><font color=3D"#888888"><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div clas=
s=3D"m_-3934407441196909720m_-3956804319574981321m_6566187786994531400gmail=
_signature">Matt Sicker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_=
blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</div>
</font></span></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class=
=3D"m_-3934407441196909720m_-3956804319574981321gmail_signature" data-smart=
mail=3D"gmail_signature">Matt Sicker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]=
" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</div>
</div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br c=
lear=3D"all"><div><br></div></div></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=
=3D"#888888">-- <br><div class=3D"m_-3934407441196909720gmail_signature" da=
ta-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">Matt Sicker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:boards@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</div>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">Matt Sicker &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;=
</div>
</div>

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