Re: [VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@

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The -1 thing is mentioned here <https://logging.apache.org/guidelines.html>
regarding a -1 being a veto for anything consensus-related (generally
anything to do with adding or removing committers/PMCs). I suppose in that
context, a mailing list change probably falls under lazy majority, though
whatever it is we're doing at Commons for lazy votes isn't on that page.

On 7 March 2017 at 22:59, Ralph Goers <[email protected]> wrote:

> +1
>
> Note that generally a -1 is a veto only on code commits. On everything
> else it just means you are against the proposal. However, we generally
> strive for consensus so great weight is given to binding votes that are
> opposed.
>
> Ralph
>
> On Mar 7, 2017, at 9:23 PM, Matt Sicker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> This is my +1.
>
> If this is the incorrect voting format and we need to do a 2/3 majority
> instead, please veto this and let me know. This situation is not spelled
> out in the bylaws.
>
> On 7 March 2017 at 22:20, Matt Sicker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I may be missing some mailing lists considering I just subscribed to half
>> of them less than five minutes ago.
>>
>> This is a vote to merge the various Apache Logging Services mailing
>> lists. The proposal is to combine them as follows:
>>
>> log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ ->
>> [email protected]
>> log4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general@ ->
>> [email protected]
>>
>> commits@ and private@ remain the same as before.
>>
>> The proposal would also suggest that the old emails become aliases for
>> the combined email names so as not to lose any future emails. To
>> distinguish between projects, a subject tag can be added such as:
>>
>> [java]
>> [net]
>> [cxx]
>> [php]
>>
>> Though I wouldn't think such a tag is required, though it should help in
>> gaining the attention of the appropriate audience.
>>
>> Voting:
>>
>> +1: Yes, combine the mailing lists!
>> +0: Go ahead, don't care that much.
>> -0: Don't like it, but not vetoing it.
>> -1: No, don't do that! I have a better idea!
>>
>> This vote follows the same "lazy consensus" (at least 3 +1 binding, no
>> -1/vetoes) we use for general releases and whatnot. The vote will be open
>> for at least 72 hours.
>>
>> --
>> Matt Sicker <[email protected]>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker <[email protected]>
>
>
>


-- 
Matt Sicker <[email protected]>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">The -1 thing is mentioned here &lt;<a href=3D"https://logg=
ing.apache.org/guidelines.html">https://logging.apache.org/guidelines.html<=
/a>&gt; regarding a -1 being a veto for anything consensus-related (general=
ly anything to do with adding or removing committers/PMCs). I suppose in th=
at context, a mailing list change probably falls under lazy majority, thoug=
h whatever it is we&#39;re doing at Commons for lazy votes isn&#39;t on tha=
t page.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 7=
 March 2017 at 22:59, Ralph Goers <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:r=
[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wra=
p:break-word"><div>+1</div><div><br></div><div>Note that generally a -1 is =
a veto only on code commits. On everything else it just means you are again=
st the proposal. However, we generally strive for consensus so great weight=
 is given to binding votes that are opposed.</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><f=
ont color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div>Ralph</div></font></span><div><di=
v class=3D"h5"><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Mar 7, 2017, at 9=
:23 PM, Matt Sicker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_-3956804319574981321=
Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">This is my +1.<div><br></d=
iv><div>If this is the incorrect voting format and we need to do a 2/3 majo=
rity instead, please veto this and let me know. This situation is not spell=
ed out in the bylaws.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On 7 March 2017 at 22:20, Matt Sicker <span dir=3D"ltr">&l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I ma=
y be missing some mailing lists considering I just subscribed to half of th=
em less than five minutes ago.<div><br></div><div>This is a vote to merge t=
he various Apache Logging Services mailing lists. The proposal is to combin=
e them as follows:</div><div><br></div><div>log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4n=
et-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ -&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a></div><div>log4j-user@, log4php-user=
@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general@ -&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:user@logg=
ing.apache.org" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a></div><div><br=
></div><div>commits@ and private@ remain the same as before.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>The proposal would also suggest that the old emails become alias=
es for the combined email names so as not to lose any future emails. To dis=
tinguish between projects, a subject tag can be added such as:</div><div><b=
r></div><div>[java]</div><div>[net]</div><div>[cxx]</div><div>[php]</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Though I wouldn&#39;t think such a tag is required, thoug=
h it should help in gaining the attention of the appropriate audience.</div=
><div><br></div><div>Voting:</div><div><br></div><div>+1: Yes, combine the =
mailing lists!</div><div>+0: Go ahead, don&#39;t care that much.</div><div>=
-0: Don&#39;t like it, but not vetoing it.</div><div>-1: No, don&#39;t do t=
hat! I have a better idea!</div><div><br></div><div>This vote follows the s=
ame &quot;lazy consensus&quot; (at least 3 +1 binding, no -1/vetoes) we use=
 for general releases and whatnot. The vote will be open for at least 72 ho=
urs.<span class=3D"m_-3956804319574981321HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><b=
r clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class=3D"m_-3956804319574981321m=
_6566187786994531400gmail_signature">Matt Sicker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:boar=
[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</div>
</font></span></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class=
=3D"m_-3956804319574981321gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signatur=
e">Matt Sicker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">bo=
[email protected]</a>&gt;</div>
</div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br c=
lear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smar=
tmail=3D"gmail_signature">Matt Sicker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]=
m" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</div>
</div>

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