Re: [Csnd-dev] csound tilde

Hi all, I can weigh in here with some context and comments on plans.

I'd be happy to have the code moved or the repo mirrored. I do think there
is value in having it as a standalone repo too though for non-csound devs
to access the code (ie people coming from the Max external side).

The purpose of my object was to provide something similar to Victor's Pd
object that uses the API. It currently contains most of what Victor has but
not the midi code, and has some extra features for outputting control
messages. It performs well and works in Live solidly.  I haven't had anyone
request the midi code be ported but I would consider doing so if there is
demand to do so. I don't use the midi code because I have Max handle midi
and send csound events to the object.

I will make version for Csound7 when that is available.

The legacy csound~ object is much, much more complicated. It predates the
API and so uses Max SDK tools for spinning up threads and running command
line csound in them. It thus also supports doing all the things command
line csound does. I looked it through it before starting mine, and it's
about 10 times more code (prob more!) and does things I can't see anyone
wanting to do anymore from a Max development perspective (not a user). So
the problem is that it would be a lot of work to understand and maintain,
and wouldn't really produce something maintainable out the other end (you
would still have this impressive but rather convoluted way of integrating
with command line csound and you would still need any other maintainer to
digest a lot). My object and Victor's are much, much easier to hack on -
anyone who knows the API and learns the basics of the Max SDK could work on
it.

My situation is that this is not the main work for my PhD (Scheme for Max
is, which I use to drive the csound object) and I am also working part time
so I have very limited extra dev time. I am happy to continue extending my
object, and to port over more functionality from the Pd one, but I can't
take over the legacy one. I, unfortunately, also don't have time to go
through other instruments and code to figure out why they won't work. I
would, however, be happy to receive detailed feedback on why specific
csound instruments/devices don't work to see if that is solvable with the
new device, but I would need the help of whoever is hoping to make it work.

I get that this is disappointing for those who want to a fully backwards
compatible Apple Silicon solution, but that code base is a beast and I
personally don't think it's a great way to integrate Csound and Max so I
can't justify the time to make that happen, sorry!

Also, totally happy to have others help on it (and to provide whatever
advice I can) if someone wants to work on getting it supporting some
example devices.

iain


On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 8:04 AM Dr. Richard Boulanger <
[email protected]> wrote:

> I will try, but I do not think that any of the 150+ Csound for Live
> Instruments and Models and Demos run with Iain's version.
> - and all those fantastic examples that supported csound~ will be gone too.
>
> I will send you a screenshot.
>
> You need to get info on you MaxMSP and get info on Live
> - there you will see an option to 'run in Rosetta'
>
>
> *- Dr.B*
>
>
> *Dr. Richard Boulanger*
>
> Professor
>
> Electronic Production and Design
>
> *Berklee College of Music*
>
> Professional Writing & Technology Division
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 10:52 AM joachim heintz <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> a note would be great, although i don't know how long apple will support
>> this feature.
>> but for now it is certainly necessary; i was not aware of it.
>> can you describe what to do, or point to a link?
>> and did you compare the perormance to iain's new implementation?
>> thanks -
>>         joachim
>>
>>
>> On 11/01/2024 16:22, Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
>> > For sure there should also be a link for Iain's version.  And we might
>> now want to link to the entire "csound for live" library/collection.
>> >
>> > Maybe for now a note about Rosetta too?
>> >
>> > Dr. Richard Boulanger
>> > Professor
>> > Electronic Production and Design
>> > Berklee College of Music
>> >
>> >> On Jan 11, 2024, at 10:20 AM, Dr. Richard Boulanger <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The original csound~ works in Rosetta.
>> >>
>> >> The original csound~ needs to be recompiled and built for M1 (please).
>> >>
>> >> Otherwise... all of the "csound for live" instruments - now free - are
>> gone.
>> >>
>> >> Even now, if one doesn't know the Rosetta option... csound for live is
>> sadly... history.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Dr. Richard Boulanger
>> >> Professor
>> >> Electronic Production and Design
>> >> Berklee College of Music
>> >>
>> >>> On Jan 11, 2024, at 7:38 AM, joachim heintz <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> hi all -
>> >>>
>> >>> this is a question about the csound external for max.
>> >>> i tried to install it on a M1 (silicon) mac.
>> >>> it did not work with the version which is linked on
>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=csound.com&u=aHR0cHM6Ly9jc291bmQuY29tL2Rvd25sb2FkLmh0bWw=&i=NWYxNzBkMDNiNTVmZGEwZmIyNjczYmRm&t=NU1PVW1MaVVsbzN6K1cvckNZTG52Sy9yOU15VTYwenVGTUhBd29XbHl2bz0=&h=b4653bc8fc674dff8844dda8dd5242d0&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbDiotnuee8kJ0dzchUqhL9xXtb_kJaaDLciMNnasOPTfg6wDrF_APsGBPl5yMWTPQ
>> and points to
>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=github.com&u=aHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2Nzb3VuZC9jc291bmRfdGlsZGUvcmVsZWFzZXMvdGFnL3YxLjEuMg==&i=NWYxNzBkMDNiNTVmZGEwZmIyNjczYmRm&t=VHZMaVBjY0l4OFhwQnZ5NFErQWZMWXNKYlFxL0lndjNhS0dtcUpnQ1QxUT0=&h=b4653bc8fc674dff8844dda8dd5242d0&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbDiotnuee8kJ0dzchUqhL9xXtb_kJaaDLciMNnasOPTfg6wDrF_APsGBPl5yMWTPQ,
>> due to wrong architecture.
>> >>> it did work with the new version which iain duncan worked out:
>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=github.com&u=aHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2lhaW5jdGR1bmNhbi9jc291bmRfbWF4L3JlbGVhc2VzL3RhZy8wLjIuMS1tYWMtdW5pdmVyc2Fs&i=NWYxNzBkMDNiNTVmZGEwZmIyNjczYmRm&t=U1pMMTNtSC9rQVVKejRFMExXQUhrU3VIekIyY0REeGVKTFN3ZFIyU0dZaz0=&h=b4653bc8fc674dff8844dda8dd5242d0&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbDiotnuee8kJ0dzchUqhL9xXtb_kJaaDLciMNnasOPTfg6wDrF_APsGBPl5yMWTPQ
>> >>>
>> >>> my questions / suggestions:
>> >>> 1. we should link to iain's version on our download page.
>> >>> 2. we should ask iain to move his version to the csound repository
>> (it is rather hidden currently)
>> >>> 3. the last push to
>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=github.com&u=aHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2Nzb3VuZC9jc291bmRfdGlsZGU=&i=NWYxNzBkMDNiNTVmZGEwZmIyNjczYmRm&t=Z1hIM09ZY0JJc0NHWThMV3RZczlOaEJpTnkwczlkN0NVdFc4YjN6QVhsaz0=&h=b4653bc8fc674dff8844dda8dd5242d0&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbDiotnuee8kJ0dzchUqhL9xXtb_kJaaDLciMNnasOPTfg6wDrF_APsGBPl5yMWTPQ
>> was more than four yers ago.  we should add a note that iain's repository
>> is the continuation for it.
>> >>>
>> >>> any opinions, in particular from the users of isin's new version of
>> csound inside max?
>> >>>
>> >>> thanks -
>> >>>    joachim
>>
>