Re: [Csnd-dev] csound tilde

Iain,

Thanks so much for all your great work on Csound6~.  It is fantastic that
it runs on Apple Silicon.
And when my students are starting Csound and Max-MSP-Jitter projects, I
always encourage them to work with your version.

I am happy too that the legacy csound~ does run in Rosetta, but I do know
that those months are numbered.

I was just hoping/dreaming that with the latest Xcode, there might now be a
"build legacy for M1" menu option, and it could be kept alive for a few
more years. ;-)

*- Dr.B*


*Dr. Richard Boulanger*

Professor

Electronic Production and Design

*Berklee College of Music*

Professional Writing & Technology Division


On Fri, Jan 12, 2024 at 3:48 PM Iain Duncan <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Hi all, I can weigh in here with some context and comments on plans.
>
> I'd be happy to have the code moved or the repo mirrored. I do think there
> is value in having it as a standalone repo too though for non-csound devs
> to access the code (ie people coming from the Max external side).
>
> The purpose of my object was to provide something similar to Victor's Pd
> object that uses the API. It currently contains most of what Victor has but
> not the midi code, and has some extra features for outputting control
> messages. It performs well and works in Live solidly.  I haven't had anyone
> request the midi code be ported but I would consider doing so if there is
> demand to do so. I don't use the midi code because I have Max handle midi
> and send csound events to the object.
>
> I will make version for Csound7 when that is available.
>
> The legacy csound~ object is much, much more complicated. It predates the
> API and so uses Max SDK tools for spinning up threads and running command
> line csound in them. It thus also supports doing all the things command
> line csound does. I looked it through it before starting mine, and it's
> about 10 times more code (prob more!) and does things I can't see anyone
> wanting to do anymore from a Max development perspective (not a user). So
> the problem is that it would be a lot of work to understand and maintain,
> and wouldn't really produce something maintainable out the other end (you
> would still have this impressive but rather convoluted way of integrating
> with command line csound and you would still need any other maintainer to
> digest a lot). My object and Victor's are much, much easier to hack on -
> anyone who knows the API and learns the basics of the Max SDK could work on
> it.
>
> My situation is that this is not the main work for my PhD (Scheme for Max
> is, which I use to drive the csound object) and I am also working part time
> so I have very limited extra dev time. I am happy to continue extending my
> object, and to port over more functionality from the Pd one, but I can't
> take over the legacy one. I, unfortunately, also don't have time to go
> through other instruments and code to figure out why they won't work. I
> would, however, be happy to receive detailed feedback on why specific
> csound instruments/devices don't work to see if that is solvable with the
> new device, but I would need the help of whoever is hoping to make it work.
>
> I get that this is disappointing for those who want to a fully backwards
> compatible Apple Silicon solution, but that code base is a beast and I
> personally don't think it's a great way to integrate Csound and Max so I
> can't justify the time to make that happen, sorry!
>
> Also, totally happy to have others help on it (and to provide whatever
> advice I can) if someone wants to work on getting it supporting some
> example devices.
>
> iain
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 8:04 AM Dr. Richard Boulanger <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I will try, but I do not think that any of the 150+ Csound for Live
>> Instruments and Models and Demos run with Iain's version.
>> - and all those fantastic examples that supported csound~ will be gone
>> too.
>>
>> I will send you a screenshot.
>>
>> You need to get info on you MaxMSP and get info on Live
>> - there you will see an option to 'run in Rosetta'
>>
>>
>> *- Dr.B*
>>
>>
>> *Dr. Richard Boulanger*
>>
>> Professor
>>
>> Electronic Production and Design
>>
>> *Berklee College of Music*
>>
>> Professional Writing & Technology Division
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 10:52 AM joachim heintz <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> a note would be great, although i don't know how long apple will support
>>> this feature.
>>> but for now it is certainly necessary; i was not aware of it.
>>> can you describe what to do, or point to a link?
>>> and did you compare the perormance to iain's new implementation?
>>> thanks -
>>>         joachim
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/01/2024 16:22, Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
>>> > For sure there should also be a link for Iain's version.  And we might
>>> now want to link to the entire "csound for live" library/collection.
>>> >
>>> > Maybe for now a note about Rosetta too?
>>> >
>>> > Dr. Richard Boulanger
>>> > Professor
>>> > Electronic Production and Design
>>> > Berklee College of Music
>>> >
>>> >> On Jan 11, 2024, at 10:20 AM, Dr. Richard Boulanger <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> The original csound~ works in Rosetta.
>>> >>
>>> >> The original csound~ needs to be recompiled and built for M1 (please).
>>> >>
>>> >> Otherwise... all of the "csound for live" instruments - now free -
>>> are gone.
>>> >>
>>> >> Even now, if one doesn't know the Rosetta option... csound for live
>>> is sadly... history.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Dr. Richard Boulanger
>>> >> Professor
>>> >> Electronic Production and Design
>>> >> Berklee College of Music
>>> >>
>>> >>> On Jan 11, 2024, at 7:38 AM, joachim heintz <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> hi all -
>>> >>>
>>> >>> this is a question about the csound external for max.
>>> >>> i tried to install it on a M1 (silicon) mac.
>>> >>> it did not work with the version which is linked on
>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=csound.com&u=aHR0cHM6Ly9jc291bmQuY29tL2Rvd25sb2FkLmh0bWw=&i=NWYxNzBkMDNiNTVmZGEwZmIyNjczYmRm&t=NU1PVW1MaVVsbzN6K1cvckNZTG52Sy9yOU15VTYwenVGTUhBd29XbHl2bz0=&h=b4653bc8fc674dff8844dda8dd5242d0&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbDiotnuee8kJ0dzchUqhL9xXtb_kJaaDLciMNnasOPTfg6wDrF_APsGBPl5yMWTPQ
>>> and points to
>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=github.com&u=aHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2Nzb3VuZC9jc291bmRfdGlsZGUvcmVsZWFzZXMvdGFnL3YxLjEuMg==&i=NWYxNzBkMDNiNTVmZGEwZmIyNjczYmRm&t=VHZMaVBjY0l4OFhwQnZ5NFErQWZMWXNKYlFxL0lndjNhS0dtcUpnQ1QxUT0=&h=b4653bc8fc674dff8844dda8dd5242d0&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbDiotnuee8kJ0dzchUqhL9xXtb_kJaaDLciMNnasOPTfg6wDrF_APsGBPl5yMWTPQ,
>>> due to wrong architecture.
>>> >>> it did work with the new version which iain duncan worked out:
>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=github.com&u=aHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2lhaW5jdGR1bmNhbi9jc291bmRfbWF4L3JlbGVhc2VzL3RhZy8wLjIuMS1tYWMtdW5pdmVyc2Fs&i=NWYxNzBkMDNiNTVmZGEwZmIyNjczYmRm&t=U1pMMTNtSC9rQVVKejRFMExXQUhrU3VIekIyY0REeGVKTFN3ZFIyU0dZaz0=&h=b4653bc8fc674dff8844dda8dd5242d0&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbDiotnuee8kJ0dzchUqhL9xXtb_kJaaDLciMNnasOPTfg6wDrF_APsGBPl5yMWTPQ
>>> >>>
>>> >>> my questions / suggestions:
>>> >>> 1. we should link to iain's version on our download page.
>>> >>> 2. we should ask iain to move his version to the csound repository
>>> (it is rather hidden currently)
>>> >>> 3. the last push to
>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=github.com&u=aHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2Nzb3VuZC9jc291bmRfdGlsZGU=&i=NWYxNzBkMDNiNTVmZGEwZmIyNjczYmRm&t=Z1hIM09ZY0JJc0NHWThMV3RZczlOaEJpTnkwczlkN0NVdFc4YjN6QVhsaz0=&h=b4653bc8fc674dff8844dda8dd5242d0&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbDiotnuee8kJ0dzchUqhL9xXtb_kJaaDLciMNnasOPTfg6wDrF_APsGBPl5yMWTPQ
>>> was more than four yers ago.  we should add a note that iain's repository
>>> is the continuation for it.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> any opinions, in particular from the users of isin's new version of
>>> csound inside max?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> thanks -
>>> >>>    joachim
>>>
>>