Re: [Csnd-dev] csound tilde

Thanks Richard! I understand the situation... wish I had more time. :-)

One issue that is an additional complication is that the new version of the
Max SDK has switched build systems, so it is now CMake based. However, if
someone were to get the legacy csound~ object building with a Cmake build,
it might be easy to build it for apple silicon. It was quite
straightforward for my object once I wrapped my head around Cmake.

iain


On Fri, Jan 12, 2024 at 3:23 PM Dr. Richard Boulanger <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Iain,
>
> Thanks so much for all your great work on Csound6~.  It is fantastic that
> it runs on Apple Silicon.
> And when my students are starting Csound and Max-MSP-Jitter projects, I
> always encourage them to work with your version.
>
> I am happy too that the legacy csound~ does run in Rosetta, but I do know
> that those months are numbered.
>
> I was just hoping/dreaming that with the latest Xcode, there might now be
> a "build legacy for M1" menu option, and it could be kept alive for a few
> more years. ;-)
>
> *- Dr.B*
>
>
> *Dr. Richard Boulanger*
>
> Professor
>
> Electronic Production and Design
>
> *Berklee College of Music*
>
> Professional Writing & Technology Division
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 12, 2024 at 3:48 PM Iain Duncan <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all, I can weigh in here with some context and comments on plans.
>>
>> I'd be happy to have the code moved or the repo mirrored. I do think
>> there is value in having it as a standalone repo too though for non-csound
>> devs to access the code (ie people coming from the Max external side).
>>
>> The purpose of my object was to provide something similar to Victor's Pd
>> object that uses the API. It currently contains most of what Victor has but
>> not the midi code, and has some extra features for outputting control
>> messages. It performs well and works in Live solidly.  I haven't had anyone
>> request the midi code be ported but I would consider doing so if there is
>> demand to do so. I don't use the midi code because I have Max handle midi
>> and send csound events to the object.
>>
>> I will make version for Csound7 when that is available.
>>
>> The legacy csound~ object is much, much more complicated. It predates the
>> API and so uses Max SDK tools for spinning up threads and running command
>> line csound in them. It thus also supports doing all the things command
>> line csound does. I looked it through it before starting mine, and it's
>> about 10 times more code (prob more!) and does things I can't see anyone
>> wanting to do anymore from a Max development perspective (not a user). So
>> the problem is that it would be a lot of work to understand and maintain,
>> and wouldn't really produce something maintainable out the other end (you
>> would still have this impressive but rather convoluted way of integrating
>> with command line csound and you would still need any other maintainer to
>> digest a lot). My object and Victor's are much, much easier to hack on -
>> anyone who knows the API and learns the basics of the Max SDK could work on
>> it.
>>
>> My situation is that this is not the main work for my PhD (Scheme for Max
>> is, which I use to drive the csound object) and I am also working part time
>> so I have very limited extra dev time. I am happy to continue extending my
>> object, and to port over more functionality from the Pd one, but I can't
>> take over the legacy one. I, unfortunately, also don't have time to go
>> through other instruments and code to figure out why they won't work. I
>> would, however, be happy to receive detailed feedback on why specific
>> csound instruments/devices don't work to see if that is solvable with the
>> new device, but I would need the help of whoever is hoping to make it work.
>>
>> I get that this is disappointing for those who want to a fully backwards
>> compatible Apple Silicon solution, but that code base is a beast and I
>> personally don't think it's a great way to integrate Csound and Max so I
>> can't justify the time to make that happen, sorry!
>>
>> Also, totally happy to have others help on it (and to provide whatever
>> advice I can) if someone wants to work on getting it supporting some
>> example devices.
>>
>> iain
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 8:04 AM Dr. Richard Boulanger <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I will try, but I do not think that any of the 150+ Csound for Live
>>> Instruments and Models and Demos run with Iain's version.
>>> - and all those fantastic examples that supported csound~ will be gone
>>> too.
>>>
>>> I will send you a screenshot.
>>>
>>> You need to get info on you MaxMSP and get info on Live
>>> - there you will see an option to 'run in Rosetta'
>>>
>>>
>>> *- Dr.B*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Dr. Richard Boulanger*
>>>
>>> Professor
>>>
>>> Electronic Production and Design
>>>
>>> *Berklee College of Music*
>>>
>>> Professional Writing & Technology Division
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 10:52 AM joachim heintz <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> a note would be great, although i don't know how long apple will
>>>> support
>>>> this feature.
>>>> but for now it is certainly necessary; i was not aware of it.
>>>> can you describe what to do, or point to a link?
>>>> and did you compare the perormance to iain's new implementation?
>>>> thanks -
>>>>         joachim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/01/2024 16:22, Dr. Richard Boulanger wrote:
>>>> > For sure there should also be a link for Iain's version.  And we
>>>> might now want to link to the entire "csound for live" library/collection.
>>>> >
>>>> > Maybe for now a note about Rosetta too?
>>>> >
>>>> > Dr. Richard Boulanger
>>>> > Professor
>>>> > Electronic Production and Design
>>>> > Berklee College of Music
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Jan 11, 2024, at 10:20 AM, Dr. Richard Boulanger <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The original csound~ works in Rosetta.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The original csound~ needs to be recompiled and built for M1
>>>> (please).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Otherwise... all of the "csound for live" instruments - now free -
>>>> are gone.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Even now, if one doesn't know the Rosetta option... csound for live
>>>> is sadly... history.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Dr. Richard Boulanger
>>>> >> Professor
>>>> >> Electronic Production and Design
>>>> >> Berklee College of Music
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On Jan 11, 2024, at 7:38 AM, joachim heintz <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> hi all -
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> this is a question about the csound external for max.
>>>> >>> i tried to install it on a M1 (silicon) mac.
>>>> >>> it did not work with the version which is linked on
>>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=csound.com&u=aHR0cHM6Ly9jc291bmQuY29tL2Rvd25sb2FkLmh0bWw=&i=NWYxNzBkMDNiNTVmZGEwZmIyNjczYmRm&t=NU1PVW1MaVVsbzN6K1cvckNZTG52Sy9yOU15VTYwenVGTUhBd29XbHl2bz0=&h=b4653bc8fc674dff8844dda8dd5242d0&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbDiotnuee8kJ0dzchUqhL9xXtb_kJaaDLciMNnasOPTfg6wDrF_APsGBPl5yMWTPQ
>>>> and points to
>>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=github.com&u=aHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2Nzb3VuZC9jc291bmRfdGlsZGUvcmVsZWFzZXMvdGFnL3YxLjEuMg==&i=NWYxNzBkMDNiNTVmZGEwZmIyNjczYmRm&t=VHZMaVBjY0l4OFhwQnZ5NFErQWZMWXNKYlFxL0lndjNhS0dtcUpnQ1QxUT0=&h=b4653bc8fc674dff8844dda8dd5242d0&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbDiotnuee8kJ0dzchUqhL9xXtb_kJaaDLciMNnasOPTfg6wDrF_APsGBPl5yMWTPQ,
>>>> due to wrong architecture.
>>>> >>> it did work with the new version which iain duncan worked out:
>>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=github.com&u=aHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2lhaW5jdGR1bmNhbi9jc291bmRfbWF4L3JlbGVhc2VzL3RhZy8wLjIuMS1tYWMtdW5pdmVyc2Fs&i=NWYxNzBkMDNiNTVmZGEwZmIyNjczYmRm&t=U1pMMTNtSC9rQVVKejRFMExXQUhrU3VIekIyY0REeGVKTFN3ZFIyU0dZaz0=&h=b4653bc8fc674dff8844dda8dd5242d0&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbDiotnuee8kJ0dzchUqhL9xXtb_kJaaDLciMNnasOPTfg6wDrF_APsGBPl5yMWTPQ
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> my questions / suggestions:
>>>> >>> 1. we should link to iain's version on our download page.
>>>> >>> 2. we should ask iain to move his version to the csound repository
>>>> (it is rather hidden currently)
>>>> >>> 3. the last push to
>>>> https://us-west-2.protection.sophos.com?d=github.com&u=aHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2Nzb3VuZC9jc291bmRfdGlsZGU=&i=NWYxNzBkMDNiNTVmZGEwZmIyNjczYmRm&t=Z1hIM09ZY0JJc0NHWThMV3RZczlOaEJpTnkwczlkN0NVdFc4YjN6QVhsaz0=&h=b4653bc8fc674dff8844dda8dd5242d0&s=AVNPUEhUT0NFTkNSWVBUSVbDiotnuee8kJ0dzchUqhL9xXtb_kJaaDLciMNnasOPTfg6wDrF_APsGBPl5yMWTPQ
>>>> was more than four yers ago.  we should add a note that iain's repository
>>>> is the continuation for it.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> any opinions, in particular from the users of isin's new version of
>>>> csound inside max?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> thanks -
>>>> >>>    joachim
>>>>
>>>