Re: CVS commit : 0.98.1

On 02/07/2013 10:56 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
> On Fri, February 8, 2013 8:26 am, Michiel Broek wrote:
>> Just trying it again without the picture
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: 	Re: [Jamin] CVS commit : 0.98.1
>> Date: 	Thu, 07 Feb 2013 22:20:44 +0100
>> From: 	Michiel Broek <[email protected]>
>> To: 	[email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/07/2013 08:14 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>>>>>> This part works fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Depending on which item is selected affects each output channel. Not
>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>> about the simplest way to handle the multichannel output meters and
>>>>>>> volume
>>>>>>> controls though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe under a new tabs something like a number of boxes equal to the
>>>>>> number of bands (just like the compressor tab), and in each box a
>>>>>> level
>>>>>> control, limiter control and level meters.
>>>>> There are a few ways to handle this in the interface.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1: Radio buttons on the Limiter section
>>>>>
>>>>> ex.
>>>>>
>>>>> [all] [low] [mid] [high]
>>>>>
>>>>>     [    limiter controls    ]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2: New scrollable tab in the upper tab panel
>>>>>
>>>>> 3: Tabbed controls for each compressor
>>>>>
>>>>> 4: Add the controls directly under the compressors by extending the
>>>>> height
>>>>> of the interface.
>>>> That would be a bad idea, see below.
>>>>
>>>>> 5: New scrollable panel for the lower tab section with choice of 3 or
>>>>> 4.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And below that a slider with
>>>>>> crossover frequencies. That must be a new band splitter independent
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the one for the compressors.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure how this fits. Can you give a little more detail? What is
>>>>> the
>>>>> purpose of a second xover?
>>>> The second xover and outputs/limiters/delay belong to driving an active
>>>> speaker system. The crossover frequencies are different then one would
>>>> need for a multiband compressor. It is even so that once the extra
>>>> outputs are calibrated for the active speaker systems it is driving,
>>>> you
>>>> normally do not touch any settings anymore.
>>>>
>>> The intention is to make the bypass on the compressors work too. At the
>>> moment they are hardcoded because that was the easiest way to get a
>>> proof
>>> of concept out the door.
>> Ok.
>>
>>>> Different is the three compressors, the xover frequency choice is a
>>>> personal taste and also dependent on the music style. This is more an
>>>> art and taste part while the extra outputs is pure technical.
>>>>
>>>> Eventually, if the extra outputs, xover limiters etc were in its' own
>>>> application, it would be a solution too and for live use you should
>>>> chain mixer -> original jamin -> xover/limiters app -> lwo mid and high
>>>> amplifiers and speakers.
>>>>
>>> If the compressors are bypassed do you need a seperate application?
>> Not really. I attached a drawing based on the original drawing on the
>> website. The bottom part on the drawing makes me think that the original
>> limiter and output level is now duplicated in the new channels.
>>
>> First some ideas on the extra output channels and how DBX uses them
>>
> So effectively we are talking about a whole new section for the
> multichannel output that comes after the signal has been processed for
> stereo output.
>
> That means pluggin a new xover into the final stage stereo output signal
> and splitting it by as many channels as the user requires.
>
That's correct.

>> If there are more that two bands, the lower band is driven by the
>> crossover using as a bandfilter. Only the highest output uses a shelf
>> filter. What they do in single band mode is to use only the high output
>> and put the shelf frequency probably at 10 Hz.
>>
>> I think this is a good idea to make the system flexible, in single band
>> mode it is classic Jamin. To make it a two band system, the crossover is
>> something like 800 Hz, so the high channel is 800 upto whatever is
>> possible,, and the low channel 10 up to 800 Hz.
>>
>> That system with its' crossover is being fed by the boost stage. (In my
>> drawing the original level and limiter is still in place.
>>
> For the multichannel option do we need the boost+limiter on the stereo
> signal before the secondary xover? I'm not going to take it out but it
> might not be good to have too many boost+limiters int he mix. Probably it
> should be disabled by default.
>
We don't need that, that's the reason why I did draw a bypass for that 
section.

>>
>>
>>>> That is the reason why I think it is logical to add a tab in Jamin
>>>> where
>>>> all controls for the extra xover and output drivers can be placed. I
>>>> will try to make a diagram later this evening.
>>>>
>>> We should try to keep the signal flow. leading the eye down the
>>> interface
>>> and then back up again to the output controls is bad UI design.
>>>
>>> How about a collapsable panel for the multi channel band outputs
>>> directly
>>> under the compressor panel so we don't add extra space unless it is
>>> explicitly requested?  We could also make the compressors optional by
>>> hiding the compressor panel.
>> I agree that the screen should represent the signal flow, it should be
>> logical.
>>
>> To make the best use of the available space there are some thing that I
>> find important. When I use Jamin I allways want to see the several level
>> meters in the compressors, the spectrum and so on so that you can see
>> what the signals are doing. It may be possible to show everything in one
>> view if you use popup's or some other idea to bring up the controls of a
>> part in the system. For example I don't need all the compressor controls
>> at the same time if I'm only adjusting the Low compressor. Only popup
>> the sliders when needed save a lot of space.
>>
> It would be nice to view the multiband and the compressor scales at the
> same time. We could move the compressor scales to the compressor section
> and add a tabbed view either per compressor or as a group.
I think a tabbed view per compressor is fine.

>> It may even be safer that the controls need to be activated to adjust
>> them. You call it a collapse panel, I don't know exactly what you mean
>> by that but it looks to me that for the user it has the same result.
>>
> Basically the panel is not visible unless required. When required it will
> extend the size of the window or replace an existing section. It's similar
> to tabs but has a slightly different visual action in the display
> procedure.
I thought it should be something like that. That should work good for 
the user.

> Basically we can have a button either in the toolbar or under the master
> output that enables the multichannel section of the interface.
>
I would prefer it in the toolbar, in the preferences panel.

gtx, Michiel


> --
> Patrick Shirkey
> Boost Hardware Ltd
>
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