Re: sc-users is closing down

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I'm very sorry to hear this. It's disheartening to hear that someone is
made unable to access the community resources for any reason. In my
long-ish history in the software world, I've seen basic accessibility for
visually impaired users fall off the end of feature lists again and
again... It's infuriating for me to watch, and I'm sure a hundred times
more infuriating to experience.

Accessibility for VI users in the Discourse forum software is a very hot
topic, and is seeing active work (some topics are being discussed right now
on this thread:
https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-with-a-screen-reader/178105/76), but
it's I think still far behind where it should be. I'd like to do whatever I
can in terms of configuration to make the scsynth Discourse forum more
accessible. Also, we update the software very regularly, so any
accessibility related improvements or bug fixes to the Discourse software
should end up on the forum very quickly.

If there are particular issues with the forum software, please feel free to
reach out to me via email (scott-y6qSm6YX8/[email protected]) - I'm happy to do whatever
is possible in terms of configuration to make the experience better. Also
happy to bring up issues with the forum developer team / push for fixes in
the forum software itself  - as I said, there seem to be developers that
are actively working on and passionate about this are (and, it's open
source, so we can also contribute patches ourselves).

Finally - the forum also has a pure mailing list mode. I'm not sure how
well this would replace the old school email list experience of sc-users,
but it might be better than the website itself. If you already have an
account, the setting is here: https://scsynth.org/u/my/preferences/emails
(my mac screenreader says its "Enable mailing list mode checkbox").  If
navigating the site is too much of a pain in the ass, let me know - I
believe I can use my admin powers to make an account and sign you up for ML
mode also :)

Additionally: if anyone else in the SuperCollider community feels unable to
access forums, chats, documentation, web resources, etc. due to
accessibility issues, feel free to reach out to myself (scott-y6qSm6YX8/[email protected]=
)
or any of the other SC moderators (https://scsynth.org/g/moderators) and we
will try our best to help.

Thanks much for being candid about your experience. Hopefully we can find a
way to make this a bit better!

Best,
Scott C


On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 3:22 PM <[email protected]> wrote:

> [email protected] writes:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > As some of you will know from the discussions here, this list will be
> closing
> > down. We=E2=80=99re encouraging all users to join the forum at
> https://scsynth.org/
>
> This is sad :-(
>
> I refrained from commenting during the discussion, mostly because I no
> longer think the exceptional situation of a single person can influence
> current trends, and likely also because I was afraid of the grief I
> would be feeling just having to participate in such a discussion.
>
> I see the trend since a few years.  Slack, Discorse, and of course web
> forumss.  All of these are pretty much excluding for me.
> I am blind.  And while I can use a modern web browser if I have to, the
> inherent inefficiencies and accessibility problems make it pretty much a
> no-fun experience.  Well-defined protocols like SMTP/IMAP made it easy fo=
r
> me to participate in a group like sc-users, because I was able to choose
> the client software I am able to use efficiently.
>
> In this particular situation, it will lead to me going into read-only
> mode.  I will likely not contribute to scsynth.org simply because I am
> forced to go via the web.  I might be able to stay in lurking mode as
> long as the RSS interface works and the post pages stay clean enough to
> be consumed with a text browser.  But I am assuming even that is going
> to go away after a few years.  Well, such is life.
>
> When I was young, I was hoping for computer accessibility to be an eye
> for the blind to the rest of the world.  After 25 years of surfing on
> the various waves of the Internet, I realize certain trends have
> actually done the contrary.  The list of things I know about and would
> want to
> take part in but can't because they are inherently inaccessible is
> growing on a daily basis.  At least at work I was able to crawl into my
> little corner of "command-line expert" and will maybe be able to hide
> there before I retire.  Maybe, we will see.
>
> I know that this letter is not going to change things, and I dont expect
> that.  But I have to say this aloud: The way the internet is going is
> wrong. Pretending otherwise doesn't make it right.
> Open standards are replaced with proprietary web-based interfaces.
> And nobody seems to care.
>
> Question is, how many years will it take until BLM could also mean
> "blind lives matter"?  Given the current trend, never.
>
> It was a pleasure to read you all, kthxbye
>
> --
> CYa,
>   =E2=A1=8D=E2=A0=81=E2=A0=97=E2=A0=8A=E2=A0=95
>
> _______________________________________________
> sc-users mailing list
>
> info (subscription, etc.):
> http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/facilities/ea-studios/research/supercollider/=
mailinglist.aspx
> archive: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-users/
> search: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/search/
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>I&#39;m very sorry to hear this. It&#39;s dishea=
rtening to hear that someone is made unable to access the community resourc=
es for any reason. In my long-ish history in the software world, I&#39;ve s=
een basic accessibility for visually impaired users fall off the end of fea=
ture lists again and again... It&#39;s infuriating for me to watch, and I&#=
39;m sure a hundred times more infuriating to experience.<br><br></div>Acce=
ssibility for VI users in the Discourse forum software is a very hot topic,=
 and is seeing active work (some topics are being discussed right now on th=
is thread: <a href=3D"https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-with-a-screen-=
reader/178105/76">https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-with-a-screen-read=
er/178105/76</a>), but it&#39;s I think still far behind where it should be=
. I&#39;d like to do whatever I can in terms of configuration to make the s=
csynth Discourse forum more accessible. Also, we update the software very r=
egularly, so any accessibility related improvements or bug fixes to the Dis=
course software should end up on the forum very quickly.<br><br></div>If th=
ere are particular issues with the forum software, please feel free to reac=
h out to me via email (<a href=3D"mailto:scott-y6qSm6YX8/[email protected]">scott@artific=
ia.org</a>) - I&#39;m happy to do whatever is possible in terms of configur=
ation to make the experience better. Also happy to bring up issues with the=
 forum developer team / push for fixes in the forum software itself=C2=A0 -=
 as I said, there seem to be developers that are actively working on and pa=
ssionate about this are (and, it&#39;s open source, so we can also contribu=
te patches ourselves).<br><div><br></div><div>Finally - the forum also has =
a pure mailing list mode. I&#39;m not sure how well this would replace the =
old school email list experience of sc-users, but it might be better than t=
he website itself. If you already have an account, the setting is here: <a =
href=3D"https://scsynth.org/u/my/preferences/emails">https://scsynth.org/u/=
my/preferences/emails</a> (my mac screenreader says its &quot;Enable mailin=
g list mode checkbox&quot;).=C2=A0 If navigating the site is too much of a =
pain in the ass, let me know - I believe I can use my admin powers to make =
an account and sign you up for ML mode also :)<br></div><div><br></div><div=
>Additionally: if anyone else in the SuperCollider community feels unable t=
o access forums, chats, documentation, web resources, etc. due to accessibi=
lity issues, feel free to reach out to myself (<a href=3D"mailto:scott@arti=
ficia.org">scott-y6qSm6YX8/[email protected]</a>) or any of the other SC moderators (<a h=
ref=3D"https://scsynth.org/g/moderators">https://scsynth.org/g/moderators</=
a>) and we will try our best to help.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks much =
for being candid about your experience. Hopefully we can find a way to make=
 this a bit better!<br></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Scott C<br=
></div><div><table class=3D"gmail-ajC" cellpadding=3D"0"><tbody><tr class=
=3D"gmail-ajv"><td colspan=3D"2" tabindex=3D"0" class=3D"gmail-gL"><br></td=
></tr></tbody></table></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 3:22 PM &lt;mlang@bli=
nd.guru&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e=
x"><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</=
a> writes:<br>
<br>
&gt; Hi All,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; As some of you will know from the discussions here, this list will be =
closing<br>
&gt; down. We=E2=80=99re encouraging all users to join the forum at <a href=
=3D"https://scsynth.org/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://scsy=
nth.org/</a><br>
<br>
This is sad :-(<br>
<br>
I refrained from commenting during the discussion, mostly because I no<br>
longer think the exceptional situation of a single person can influence<br>
current trends, and likely also because I was afraid of the grief I<br>
would be feeling just having to participate in such a discussion.<br>
<br>
I see the trend since a few years.=C2=A0 Slack, Discorse, and of course web=
<br>
forumss.=C2=A0 All of these are pretty much excluding for me.<br>
I am blind.=C2=A0 And while I can use a modern web browser if I have to, th=
e<br>
inherent inefficiencies and accessibility problems make it pretty much a<br=
>
no-fun experience.=C2=A0 Well-defined protocols like SMTP/IMAP made it easy=
 for<br>
me to participate in a group like sc-users, because I was able to choose<br=
>
the client software I am able to use efficiently.<br>
<br>
In this particular situation, it will lead to me going into read-only<br>
mode.=C2=A0 I will likely not contribute to <a href=3D"http://scsynth.org" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">scsynth.org</a> simply because I am<br=
>
forced to go via the web.=C2=A0 I might be able to stay in lurking mode as<=
br>
long as the RSS interface works and the post pages stay clean enough to<br>
be consumed with a text browser.=C2=A0 But I am assuming even that is going=
<br>
to go away after a few years.=C2=A0 Well, such is life.<br>
<br>
When I was young, I was hoping for computer accessibility to be an eye<br>
for the blind to the rest of the world.=C2=A0 After 25 years of surfing on<=
br>
the various waves of the Internet, I realize certain trends have<br>
actually done the contrary.=C2=A0 The list of things I know about and would=
 want to<br>
take part in but can&#39;t because they are inherently inaccessible is<br>
growing on a daily basis.=C2=A0 At least at work I was able to crawl into m=
y<br>
little corner of &quot;command-line expert&quot; and will maybe be able to =
hide<br>
there before I retire.=C2=A0 Maybe, we will see.<br>
<br>
I know that this letter is not going to change things, and I dont expect<br=
>
that.=C2=A0 But I have to say this aloud: The way the internet is going is<=
br>
wrong. Pretending otherwise doesn&#39;t make it right.<br>
Open standards are replaced with proprietary web-based interfaces.<br>
And nobody seems to care.<br>
<br>
Question is, how many years will it take until BLM could also mean<br>
&quot;blind lives matter&quot;?=C2=A0 Given the current trend, never.<br>
<br>
It was a pleasure to read you all, kthxbye<br>
<br>
-- <br>
CYa,<br>
=C2=A0 =E2=A1=8D=E2=A0=81=E2=A0=97=E2=A0=8A=E2=A0=95<br>
<br>
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supercollider/mailinglist.aspx</a><br>
archive: <a href=3D"http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-users/" rel=
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search: <a href=3D"http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/search/" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-u=
sers/search/</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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archive: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-users/
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