Re: Default Download Site: Google Code
Chris Giles <[email protected]> Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:47:58 +1000
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.autopackage.devel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--0016364ee2ea89dd0f046bcac231 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I'm not that convinced. IMHO the current download site is good and > fast enough (although it's down sometime, but when it's up, it has > always been fast for me). I'm sure that European users find your Danish AP download site to be fast, but those in other parts of the world might not. For example, it's significantly slower than Google for Australian users. > There are many people out there hating > Google and everything that's related to it (at least here in Germany). They're probably just jealous of Google's wealth. I find it hard to hate Google, after they've done so much for the Internet and its users for free. Obviously I'm not one of them, but before changing the default > download site I would recommend using it as the first mirror for some > time and if it proves to be worthy make it the default download site. I think that's a good idea. I imagine that Google has high bandwidth to just about everywhere, so it wouldn't take long to prove its worth to us. Perhaps part of an AP script could read the output from 'wget', to retrieve the speed of the download. This info could then be relayed back to us via PHP and automatically stored in a central database, full of mirrors and their speeds to each country. This way, we'd know how fast each mirror is when accessed from different parts of the world. Furthermore there are other alternatives. For example github.com is > similar to Google Code and could also be used for code since git is a > very nice VCS (imo better then svn). Linus' Git is apparently very powerful and flexible, although Google Code went with Mercurial for the reasons stated on this wiki page: http://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/DVCSAnalysis. If you wanna switch AP from SVN to Git, by all means use GitHub instead of Google Code for download mirroring. Although, keep in mind that Google Code would probably be faster and you're already using SVN. > Another example is my own server (watteimdocht.de) which is currently > also hosting the forums: > http://watteimdocht.de/autopackage/forum > The advantage over Google Code is that I have root access, so I can > add symbolic links, execute script to automatically fetch the current > release, etc. If we create a Google Code project we would need to > upload the tarballs there every time we make a new release. Your server is probably a lot slower than Google Code is, when accessed from distant countries. IMHO, download speed is the highest priority, since users hate waiting on slow servers when trying to install applications. Why can't we use both methods? The AP could initially query your server, which would ultimately point them to download the current release from Google Code or GitHub. I could be wrong and underestimate Google Code, but right now I would > rather stay with the current download site. I'm afraid to say that I think this would be a bad decision, as noted above. If we want AP to be a serious option for packagers around the world, our primary download site must be speedy from everywhere. > A good solution could also be that each Autopackage downloads a list > with mirrors. This way we don't need to always change the list in each > autopackage and older Autopackages would also download from newer > (faster) mirrors. Of course we should leave a list of mirrors as a > fallback in each autopackage. I'll let you decide about that, but I have a feeling that Google Code would be the 'only' download site we'd need. If it does prove to be quick from most countries, the word 'mirror' would become obsolete from AP. > Package signing might also be interesting. Or downloading using Bittorrent > :D The first idea sounds good; the second might actually be viable, when AP becomes more popular. > Sorry, I don't want to be rude, but when has Mike Hearn working at > Google ever helped Autopackage? Even Google doesn't use Autopackage > and doesn't sees any interest in supporting it (although it really > might be useful for Google Earth, Google Desktop or Google Chrome > distribution on Linux). It'd be ideal if the major software distributors would recognise that they can prevent the need for distribution-specific packaging by simply releasing an AP. I'm surprised that Google hasn't shown more interest in AP or ZI yet. --0016364ee2ea89dd0f046bcac231 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"borde= r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-le= ft: 1ex;">I'm not that convinced. IMHO the current download site is goo= d and<br> fast enough (although it's down sometime, but when it's up, it has<= br> always been fast for me).</blockquote><div><br>I'm sure that European u= sers find your Danish AP download site to be fast, but those in other parts= of the world might not.=C2=A0 For example, it's significantly slower t= han Google for Australian users.<br> =C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px= solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">T= here are many people out there hating<br> Google and everything that's related to it (at least here in Germany).<= /blockquote><div><br>They're probably just jealous of Google's weal= th.=C2=A0 I find it hard to hate Google, after they've done so much for= the Internet and its users for free.<br> <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid= rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Obviously I'm not one of them, but before changing the default<br> download site I would recommend using it as the first mirror for some<br> time and if it proves to be worthy make it the default download site.</bloc= kquote><div><br>I think that's a good idea.=C2=A0 I imagine that Google= has high bandwidth to just about everywhere, so it wouldn't take long = to prove its worth to us.<br> <br>Perhaps part of an AP script could read the output from 'wget',= to retrieve the speed of the download.=C2=A0 This info could then be relay= ed back to us via PHP and automatically stored in a central database, full = of mirrors and their speeds to each country.=C2=A0 This way, we'd know = how fast each mirror is when accessed from different parts of the world.<br= > <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid= rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Furthermore there are other alternatives. For example <a href=3D"http://git= hub.com" target=3D"_blank">github.com</a> is<br> similar to Google Code and could also be used for code since git is a<br> very nice VCS (imo better then svn).</blockquote><div><br>Linus' Git is= apparently very powerful and flexible, although Google Code went with Merc= urial for the reasons stated on this wiki page: <a href=3D"http://code.goog= le.com/p/support/wiki/DVCSAnalysis" target=3D"_blank">http://code.google.co= m/p/support/wiki/DVCSAnalysis</a>.<br> <br>If you wanna switch AP from SVN to Git, by all means use GitHub instead= of Google Code for download mirroring.=C2=A0 Although, keep in mind that G= oogle Code would probably be faster and you're already using SVN.<br>= =C2=A0<br> </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb= (204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Another example is my own server (<a href=3D"http://watteimdocht.de" target= =3D"_blank">watteimdocht.de</a>) which is currently<br> also hosting the forums:<br> <a href=3D"http://watteimdocht.de/autopackage/forum" target=3D"_blank">http= ://watteimdocht.de/autopackage/forum</a><br> The advantage over Google Code is that I have root access, so I can<br> add symbolic links, execute script to automatically fetch the current<br> release, etc. If we create a Google Code project we would need to<br> upload the tarballs there every time we make a new release.</blockquote><di= v><br>Your server is probably a lot slower than Google Code is, when access= ed from distant countries.=C2=A0 IMHO, download speed is the highest priori= ty, since users hate waiting on slow servers when trying to install applica= tions.<br> <br>Why can't we use both methods?=C2=A0 The AP could initially query y= our server, which would ultimately point them to download the current relea= se from Google Code or GitHub.<br><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot= e" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt = 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> I could be wrong and underestimate Google Code, but right now I would<br> rather stay with the current download site.</blockquote><div><br>I'm af= raid to say that I think this would be a bad decision, as noted above.=C2= =A0 If we want AP to be a serious option for packagers around the world, ou= r primary download site must be speedy from everywhere.<br> =C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px= solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> A good solution could also be that each Autopackage downloads a list<br> with mirrors. This way we don't need to always change the list in each<= br> autopackage and older Autopackages would also download from newer<br> (faster) mirrors. Of course we should leave a list of mirrors as a<br> fallback in each autopackage.</blockquote><div><br>I'll let you decide = about that, but I have a feeling that Google Code would be the 'only= 9; download site we'd need.=C2=A0 If it does prove to be quick from mos= t countries, the word 'mirror' would become obsolete from AP.<br> =C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px= solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Package signing might also be interesting. Or downloading using Bittorrent = :D</blockquote><div><br>The first idea sounds good; the second might actual= ly be viable, when AP becomes more popular.<br>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote = class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); m= argin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div> </div>Sorry, I don't want to be rude, but when has Mike Hearn working a= t<br> Google ever helped Autopackage? Even Google doesn't use Autopackage<br> and doesn't sees any interest in supporting it (although it really<br> might be useful for Google Earth, Google Desktop or Google Chrome<br> distribution on Linux).</blockquote><div><br>It'd be ideal if the major= software distributors would recognise that they can prevent the need for d= istribution-specific packaging by simply releasing an AP.=C2=A0 I'm sur= prised that Google hasn't shown more interest in AP or ZI yet.<br> <br></div></div> --0016364ee2ea89dd0f046bcac231--