Re: ASP dot Net CMS -- I am astounded

"I have been on many mailing lists, and I have never seen as much 
stupidity on a list as on this one. I am astounded that these morons 
have jobs."

So why are you here? Do you think your ignorant screeds will change 
peoples minds?

A server is secure if the admin knows what they are doing. Linux can be 
insecure (you do realize that, don't you?).

You are a fool.

-Rob

Paul D. Bain wrote:
> At 11:18 AM 2/22/2005, John wrote:
> 
>> This is a valid concern, but I don't see how we get through the real 
>> issues without just starting another religious war.  I have always 
>> been skeptical of Microsoft, inventing the phrase "if you're not 
>> actively against them, you're implicitly with them".  Before picking 
>> the CMS with which I now work I evaluated platforms, primarily J2EE 
>> vs. .NET.  One interesting point was how frank, accurate and open the 
>> .NET resources were about strengths and limitations.  Many of the Java 
>> resources were bitter, inaccurate and biased.  To a large extent 
>> perspective on this issue depends on who one listens to.  The 
>> rumblings I hear indicate that Microsoft sold more server licenses 
>> last year than all Unix vendors combined, that a default Windows 
>> Server 2003 installation is more secure than a typical Linux installation,
> 
> 
>         A default Windows Server installation is more secure than a 
> typical Linux installation? Apparently, the "professionals" on this list 
> do not want for stupidity.
> 
>>  and that .NET is a very viable, flexible and high-performance 
>> enterprise development platform.
> 
> 
>         Currently, the .Net platform runs only on Windows (Mono is not 
> yet mature), which owes its continued survival (at least in the server 
> market) to the fact that most MCSE's are simply too stupid to learn 
> Linux or *BSD.
> 
>>   One problem seems to be the lack of success stories in the market 
>> compared to more established platforms.  I also prefer .NET's 
>> documentation and XML "auto"-documentation features.  If you've ever 
>> had to call Microsoft for support (not from a home user perspective, 
>> but from an enterprise), it's a totally different and positive 
>> experience.  I remember one CMS vendor telling me the machine was 
>> bluescreening because of OS and hardware issue, and Microsoft telling 
>> me "if you uninstall [that CMS] from that server it will stop 
>> bluescreening".  Sure enough, the bug was with the CMS, but it took 
>> months for that vendor to deal with it.
> 
> 
>         In the *nix world, the analog to a BSoD ("Blue Screen of Death") 
> is called a "kernel panic," which rarely happens these days, at least on 
> Linux (and I am told that it is even more rare on FreeBSD than on 
> Linux). Under *nix, your X window server may crash from time to time, 
> but the kernel generally does not. Furthermore, if X crashes, you can 
> easily kill it and restart it (from a virtual console, of course). IOW, 
> in the *nix world, applications almost never cause the operating system 
> to crash, which happens all too often on M$ Windows.
> 
>> I think with .NET Microsoft really got something right and it makes 
>> sense to capitalize on their huge research and development budget, 
>> especially in the hopes that Mono on Linux really takes off (this 
>> should probably be a backdoor strategy for all .NET CMS vendors).
> 
> 
>         Mono on Linux is not yet mature and is receiving absolutely NO 
> help from M$.
> 
>>   Like it or not, Microsoft and .NET are here to stay
> 
> 
>         The hell they are. The only thing keeping M$ alive in the server 
> market is the fact that MCSE's are too stupid to learn Linux and *BSD. 
> Absolutely NOTHING else. Seven years from now, after the jobs of all of 
> the MCSE's have been sent offshore, no one in the USA will be installing 
> new M$ servers. It will be an exclusively *nix world, at least in the 
> realm of servers.
> 
>>  and apparently picking up CMS market share as next generation CMS 
>> technology goes mainstream.  I've done large CMS projects with .NET, 
>> Perl and Java and I can say without a doubt that for me, .NET with 
>> Visual Studio allows almost an order of magnitude greater productivity 
>> than the other platforms, and more reliable systems.  For me it is 
>> easier to write new code in C# than port existing C# code to Java 
>> because of simple missing constructs like foreach.  I think J2EE 
>> containers tend to lead to vendor lock-in much like .NET,
> 
> 
>         How does using Jakarta Tomcat, Jetty, or JBoss lead to lock-in?
> 
>>  and I have done enough Perl to know it's not a good candidate for 
>> highly-integrated enterprise solutions.  PHP and Python may be better 
>> candidates, but my experience leads me to believe the open source CMS 
>> products take a lot more heavy lifting and specialized skills.
> 
> 
>         Yeah, it would be unfortunate if you had to hire any smart 
> people. After all, they are expensive and they tend to know more about 
> network security.
> 
>>   Not all of us are building systems managed by teams of developers - 
>> many projects are actually delivering on the promise of CMS by putting 
>> control in the hands of the business users.  I think the other tools 
>> are less suited for achieving these goals.  Like most new CMS 
>> products, .NET was built from the ground up around XML - I don't know 
>> about Python, but in Java and Perl XML  [it]  is not nearly as easy.
> 
> 
>         Maybe you should take a look at OpenCms, ver. 6, beta 1. It is 
> based on J2EE and XML. See www.OpenCms.org <http://www.opencms.org/>.
> 
>> Mat Griffin wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Why are there so many blinkered people relying upon Microsoft 
>>> products? Trying looking a bit further than just MS.
> 
> 
>         It is simple, actually. There are very, very few smart people on 
> this list. The participants hereon are simply  and completely stupid. 
> They think that "this Open Source thing is a fad" and that network 
> security is not something that they should worry about. I have been on 
> many mailing lists, and I have never seen as much stupidity on a list as 
> on this one. I am astounded that these morons have jobs.
> 
> -- Paul Bain
> 
> 
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