RE: ASP dot Net CMS -- I am astounded

Paul
 
I read this list with interest because it is quite educational and sometimes
amusing. But I have to say your reaction is quite staggering. The arguments
about which platform to use - MS, Linux, J2EE are totally irrelevant to the
client - and that is what matters. We can all generate endless noise in
favour of one platform or another. I think it is a shame to slag off another
member just because he prefers Microsoft. And a shame to insult fellow
members - that is not what this list is about.
 

______________________________________
Paul Duthoit | Managing Director | Netsite Ltd
The Sail & Colour Loft | The Historic Dockyard
Chatham | Kent ME4 4TE | Tel: 01634 880800
 <http://www.netsite.co.uk/> www.netsite.co.uk |
<http://www.recruitactive.com/> www.recruitactive.com

 

  _____  

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul D. Bain
Sent: 22 February 2005 22:29
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CMS] ASP dot Net CMS -- I am astounded


At 11:18 AM 2/22/2005, John wrote:



This is a valid concern, but I don't see how we get through the real issues
without just starting another religious war.  I have always been skeptical
of Microsoft, inventing the phrase "if you're not actively against them,
you're implicitly with them".  Before picking the CMS with which I now work
I evaluated platforms, primarily J2EE vs. .NET.  One interesting point was
how frank, accurate and open the .NET resources were about strengths and
limitations.  Many of the Java resources were bitter, inaccurate and biased.
To a large extent perspective on this issue depends on who one listens to.
The rumblings I hear indicate that Microsoft sold more server licenses last
year than all Unix vendors combined, that a default Windows Server 2003
installation is more secure than a typical Linux installation,


        A default Windows Server installation is more secure than a typical
Linux installation? Apparently, the "professionals" on this list do not want
for stupidity.



 and that .NET is a very viable, flexible and high-performance enterprise
development platform.


        Currently, the .Net platform runs only on Windows (Mono is not yet
mature), which owes its continued survival (at least in the server market)
to the fact that most MCSE's are simply too stupid to learn Linux or *BSD.



  One problem seems to be the lack of success stories in the market compared
to more established platforms.  I also prefer .NET's documentation and XML
"auto"-documentation features.  If you've ever had to call Microsoft for
support (not from a home user perspective, but from an enterprise), it's a
totally different and positive experience.  I remember one CMS vendor
telling me the machine was bluescreening because of OS and hardware issue,
and Microsoft telling me "if you uninstall [that CMS] from that server it
will stop bluescreening".  Sure enough, the bug was with the CMS, but it
took months for that vendor to deal with it.


        In the *nix world, the analog to a BSoD ("Blue Screen of Death") is
called a "kernel panic," which rarely happens these days, at least on Linux
(and I am told that it is even more rare on FreeBSD than on Linux). Under
*nix, your X window server may crash from time to time, but the kernel
generally does not. Furthermore, if X crashes, you can easily kill it and
restart it (from a virtual console, of course). IOW, in the *nix world,
applications almost never cause the operating system to crash, which happens
all too often on M$ Windows.



I think with .NET Microsoft really got something right and it makes sense to
capitalize on their huge research and development budget, especially in the
hopes that Mono on Linux really takes off (this should probably be a
backdoor strategy for all .NET CMS vendors).


        Mono on Linux is not yet mature and is receiving absolutely NO help
from M$.



  Like it or not, Microsoft and .NET are here to stay


        The hell they are. The only thing keeping M$ alive in the server
market is the fact that MCSE's are too stupid to learn Linux and *BSD.
Absolutely NOTHING else. Seven years from now, after the jobs of all of the
MCSE's have been sent offshore, no one in the USA will be installing new M$
servers. It will be an exclusively *nix world, at least in the realm of
servers.



 and apparently picking up CMS market share as next generation CMS
technology goes mainstream.  I've done large CMS projects with .NET, Perl
and Java and I can say without a doubt that for me, .NET with Visual Studio
allows almost an order of magnitude greater productivity than the other
platforms, and more reliable systems.  For me it is easier to write new code
in C# than port existing C# code to Java because of simple missing
constructs like foreach.  I think J2EE containers tend to lead to vendor
lock-in much like .NET,


        How does using Jakarta Tomcat, Jetty, or JBoss lead to lock-in?



 and I have done enough Perl to know it's not a good candidate for
highly-integrated enterprise solutions.  PHP and Python may be better
candidates, but my experience leads me to believe the open source CMS
products take a lot more heavy lifting and specialized skills.


        Yeah, it would be unfortunate if you had to hire any smart people.
After all, they are expensive and they tend to know more about network
security.



  Not all of us are building systems managed by teams of developers - many
projects are actually delivering on the promise of CMS by putting control in
the hands of the business users.  I think the other tools are less suited
for achieving these goals.  Like most new CMS products, .NET was built from
the ground up around XML - I don't know about Python, but in Java and Perl
XML  [it]  is not nearly as easy.


        Maybe you should take a look at OpenCms, ver. 6, beta 1. It is based
on J2EE and XML. See www.OpenCms.org <http://www.opencms.org/> . 



Mat Griffin wrote: 



Why are there so many blinkered people relying upon Microsoft products?
Trying looking a bit further than just MS.


        It is simple, actually. There are very, very few smart people on
this list. The participants hereon are simply  and completely stupid. They
think that "this Open Source thing is a fad" and that network security is
not something that they should worry about. I have been on many mailing
lists, and I have never seen as much stupidity on a list as on this one. I
am astounded that these morons have jobs.

-- Paul Bain