Re: New Website for opengroupware.org project

Hi Helge!

Answers inline...  sorry if this becomes a duplicate: 
the original is stuck in moderation because of the
attached jpg image of the Plone History function.

--- Helge Hess <[email protected]> wrote:
> It would be easier than now, but not "really easy".
> Eg the workflow of 
> the current docs Plone is annoying and completely
> useless (and no, this 
> is not Chris' fault! ;-) To change a single page in
> docs I need to do 
> at least 5 clicks - and Plone isn't particulary
> fast.

I think that has to do more with the version of the
installed Plone/Products than the.  I'm running a
newer version with Archetypes on my test instance, and
it's considerably easier than what you describe (and
what I've experienced with the Docs plone).  I think
you'll be happier with the current version.

> Unfortunately wrong. Plone has no builtin staging,
> so all submitted 
> content is immediatly online for anonymous access.
> This is what makes the workflow superflous and
> basically useless.

Again, I beg to differ.  On my instance here, I can
block content that is "visible" from being seen
anonymously.  This is a permission problem, again
probably due to the version of Plone on the Docs
website.  I know this for sure, because I'm running
two  browsers on my workstation as I work on my new
site (one logged in as manager, one anonymous).
 
> I know that Chris likes Plone and Zope. So do I. But
> one also has to be 
> aware of the drawbacks, not just the features -
> especially in our kind 
> of setup.

I agree.  But currently we're comparing apples and
oranges.  Docs is running an older version of Plone,
which has lots of these issues fixed.  Plus, I don't
think that when Docs was first commissioned the whole
workflow was really thought through; it was
commissioned to become a knowledge repository.

> We don't have a Plone infrastructure for the issue
> in question. The 
> docs installation (currently!) solves none of the
> issues I raised for 
> the main site.

Ok, I don't quite understand this point.  Who's
running the Docs Plone server then?  Another Plone
site (seperate from Docs) can be created, using an
updated version of Plone, and then we could look at
migrating Manuals into the core www.opengroupware.org
site.
 
> I know that Plone/Zope has a lot of features. But
> missing features is 
> not our issue right now. We first need to get the
> basics right.

I agree that the basics will need to be addressed, but
there should also be a long-term plan in place. 
Otherwise, this would just turn into a band-aid
solution, which would have to be addressed again in a
few months.  The latest version of Plone has a nice
history function, which is like a diff of changes. 
See attached image.

> IMHO a Wiki could be a simple and effective solution
> if the 
> requirements can be implemented.

And there's nothing wrong with that.  But, it would be
a seperate "island" of content again, different from
Docs and Manuals.

What I see the needs/requirements as being described
as:

1.  We need an easier to maintain repository for
www.opengroupware.org

1 (a).  This needs to be comprised of the end user
site, and the developers site.

1 (b).  This needs to be accessible by members of the
comunity, in order to be more easily updated and take
the load off of Franks' shoulders.

1 (c).  The content will comprise of Documents, News
and PR announcements, Events, FAQ's, File and web
links.  Basically what's currently on
www.opengroupware.org via the SVN.

1 (d).  All content should be searchable.

2.  Once the basic structure has been outlined, the
following additional requirements are desired by
members of the community:

2 (a).  It is desireable to have the officially
released documentation for OGo available via the
website.

2 (b)  It is desireable to have user contributed
documentation accessible via searches or other method.
 It should be clearly identified as being
user-contributed, and not official documentation.

3.  It is desireable to have a consitant interface to
all aspects of content for OGo (website, manuals and
user-contributed information) in order to maximize
effeciency and minimize redundant systems or
workflows.

So, what else do we want it to do?  (No, brewing
coffee or beer won't be one of the features!)

Hope this helps!

/Mike

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