Re: [Tiki-devel] Problem with french translation for "Location"

I think this is something for 23.x, not in stable branches until it's properly tested (it will need changes all over the place imho).

jb



> On 26 Jan 2021, at 11:21, luciash via TikiWiki-devel <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Yes, I would do it after the release. Too late to do it either way now (sadly) I guess.
> 
> You need to run the script from Brendan then to fix all the languages after making the change in tpls iirc.
> 
> luci
> 
> 
> On 26.01.2021 12:08, Bsfez Tiki wrote:
>> To be sure I get it righ (and thanks for helping me to understand)t;
>> 
>> at : lang/fr/language.php
>> 
>> I change;
>> "Location" => "Lieu",
>> 
>> for
>> 
>> "Location_(map)" => "Lieu",
>> 
>> And at : templates/tiki-user_preferences.tpl line 99
>> 
>> I change
>> 
>> {tr}Location{/tr}
>> 
>> for
>> 
>> {tr}Location_(map){/tr}
>> 
>> Ok...
>> 
>> But this will break translation for ALL the string "Location" in every language.
>> And meaning is I should change each occurence of
>> 
>> {tr}Location{/tr}
>> and eventually:
>> {tr}location{/tr}
>> tra('Location')
>> tra('location')
>> 
>> Then rebuilt the language strings.
>> 
>> That look like an "Adventurous" change/commit just before a release.🤔
>> 
>> Bernard
>> 
>> 
>>> On 26 Jan 2021, at 11:45 , luciash via TikiWiki-devel <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What should be done to implement it: I guess just go ahead and change the strings in tpl files then translate in language.php?
>>> 
>>> luci
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 26.01.2021 10:13, Bsfez Tiki via TikiWiki-devel wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> 
>>>> While I’m looking in the translations I have to merge I found that issue we previously discussed.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Seems we add a kind of solution:
>>>> 
>>>>> "edit (verb)": modifier
>>>>> "edit (noun)": modification
>>>>> "D_(day)" => "D", (in english)
>>>>> "D_(day)" => "J" (in french)
>>>>> "Location_(map)" => "Lieu" (in french)
>>>>> "Rent" => "Location" (in french)
>>>>> "Location" (in a tracker dropdown) stays "Location"
>>>> What should be done to implement it ?
>>>> 
>>>> I (and I see others here and there) have commented/broken translations in French because of this).
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Bernard
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 15:02 , [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't remember a specific example in Tiki off hand, but there are also examples of a term in English that has many translations.. Something like:
>>>>> "edit (verb)": modifier
>>>>> "edit (noun)": modification
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marc
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 12:31:53 +0000 Tiki developers [email protected] said
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Probably "if i remember correctly"? (guessing from
>>>>>> https://www.acronymfinder.com/Slang/IIRC.html ;)
>>>>>> But i don't remember that suggestion i'm afraid, but it's a good one. In the past we've discussed more structural ways of adding a content - like
>>>>>> by making the strings in the templates into constant looking tokens (like
>>>>>> LOCATION_AS_IN_MAPS) and then completely rebuilding the translation system to
>>>>>> take account of this, which has never happened because it would be a huge
>>>>>> task, would make the templates extra ugly and unlikely to be funded by
>>>>>> clients directly...
>>>>>> But Luci's idea could fairly easily by implemented with the small addition of
>>>>>> a little test in the tra() function to strip off the trailing _(some text) if
>>>>>> no translation is found (preferably not using regular expressions for
>>>>>> performance reasons).
>>>>>> So for Bernard's other similar question those calendar ones could be
>>>>>> "D_(day)", "M_(month)" etc.
>>>>>> I like it! :)
>>>>>> jb_(jonny)
>>>>>>> On 9 Nov 2020, at 11:59, Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> IIRC ?
>>>>>>>> On 2020-11-09 6:23 a.m., luciash via TikiWiki-devel wrote:
>>>>>>>> Good thinking Polyna, it happened before but it was not so important for
>>>>>>> anyone to care. IIRC I proposed something like this (context identifier, e.g.
>>>>>>> "Location_(place)", "List_(button)", "List_(title,label)" or "Mine_(my)") for
>>>>>>> the translation strings already several years ago.
>>>>>>>>>> luci
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09.11.2020 11:55, Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside wrote:
>>>>>>>>> But this wouldn't solve your problem !
>>>>>>>>>>>> It will only push it later on to be fixed.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Because "Location" that can mean "where something is" remain a possibility
>>>>>>> in French, like in English.
>>>>>>>>>>>> But also it can means to offer something for rental.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it would be something smart to push it a bit further to our mind
>>>>>>> finding a solution.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Because if this now arise with one keyword, we can be assured this will
>>>>>>> appear later on with some different word, maybe in Spanish, Japanese or even
>>>>>>> Russian this time...
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am surprised this didn't happened before and haven't been think about....
>>>>>>>>>>>> The pretty simple fact that taking word out of context and translating them
>>>>>>> won't do the job on the long run. Don't need a PhD in linguistic to understand
>>>>>>> this one ! Neither do you need to have developed a natural language processing
>>>>>>> library to start that maybe there's a need to evolve the crude simple string
>>>>>>> matching translation...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Those a just my crazy idea... and it's why I implemented some context
>>>>>>> identifier to the string, so that I can use unique word in different context
>>>>>>> and control how they translate. So that the translation keep a bit of logic.
>>>>>>> Sometime, you also have to invert the position of word in sentence. Or it
>>>>>>> really look like a 1985 translated text based console video game...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2020-11-09 5:15 a.m., luciash via TikiWiki-devel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In such cases we introduce new preference for Trackers on i18n control
>>>>>>> panel "Multilingual Tracker field names" to make it optional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09.11.2020 9:26, Bsfez Tiki via TikiWiki-devel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In a French Tiki in a tracker I have a dropdown field and one field value
>>>>>>> is "Location" (meaning rent in French)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But it is swapped for the word "Lieu" and that’s a different meaning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The swapping is a translation.
>>>>>>>>>>> At lang/fr/language.php line 2304 we have
>>>>>>>>>>> "Location" => "Lieu",
>>>>>>>>>>> Location exist in French and as a different meaning than in English
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do we deal with such cases ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> B
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> -- >>> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.tiki.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Be smart, Be wise, Own your information infrastructure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> -- > Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
>>>>>>>> https://www.tiki.org/
>>>>>>>>> -Be smart, Be wise, Own your information infrastructure
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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