Re: [Tiki-devel] About the roundtable meetings...

Hi again,

Sorry, I  meant to say "labeling the recordings as the "Tiki Roundtable 
Podcast" or similar, etc."

-- Gary

(also let's -> lets ;-) )

On 4/26/2023 6:43 PM, Gary Cunningham-Lee wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I agree with the idea of a set time for the meeting every month, and 
> the time as Bernard suggested would be good. If I recall correctly, 
> the time hasn't really varied much over the months, so that should be 
> agreeable.
>
> If somebody let's us know that they would like to attend but the time 
> is bad for them, then maybe that could be an additional meeting, as a 
> special case, keeping the regular schedule as it is.
>
> Bernard asked "who is the Tiki team?" in the comparison to "the Jitsi 
> team" sharing at their monthly meeting. Maybe if our RTM time is 
> always the same, being optimistic about this, there might be a better 
> chance of "the Tiki team" members participating. I'm thinking of 
> people that normally are apparently too busy to attend.
>
> The set meeting time would also eliminate at least one barrier to 
> entry -- not knowing exactly when the meeting is -- for newcomers to 
> Tiki, or other people that don't normally attend.
>
> As a kind of Plan B, as I brought up in the Matrix chat, if numbers 
> continue to stay low, we could kind of refocus the RTM as a podcast in 
> the sense that, while we would still encourage live participation, we 
> would put more into promoting watching and listening to the 
> recordings. We should do this anyway, but this makes more sense the 
> fewer people participate. It would be a matter of posting the 
> recording links regularly, writing news articles or using a blog, and 
> labeling the recordings as the "Tiki Roundtable Blog" or similar, etc.
>
> Of course, whoever is in charge of the meeting would have a bigger 
> task this way. In the past, people who wanted to participate added 
> their topics to the agenda. If few people participate, then the 
> meeting facilitator(s) needs to come up with the topics and 
> presentations (and interviews, etc., thinking about what goes into 
> regular podcasts). This could be a lot of work, though, so it would be 
> much better if attendance increased and people were ready with topics 
> and things to say about them.
>
> -- Gary
>
> On 4/26/2023 4:17 PM, Bernard Sfez wrote:
>> Hello Marc, Torsten, All,
>>
>> (I waited a week or so since my initial post)
>>
>> Based on the feedback;
>>
>> *1/ Have a TRM planned yearly with fixed day*
>> IE : Every 3rd Thursday at 13:00 UTC (like it used to).
>> /Note: This yearly planning (date and time) can be different of 
>> course but once set we don’t move it. Should be between 12:00UTC and 
>> 14:00UTC 
>>  (https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20230426&p1=165&p3=195&p4=37&p5=176&p6=2480 
>> <https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20230426&p1=165&p3=195&p4=37&p5=176&p6=2480>/
>> /
>> /
>> I think the people willing to join the TRM will be pleased if that 
>> solves the issue.
>> /
>> /
>> *1.1/ Who will be there ?*
>>> where the Jitsi team shares
>>
>> It would be awesome to follow the Jitsi example you gave Marc, but 
>> who is the Tiki team ?
>>
>> If people with THE knowledge don’t comes to the TRM, there is no 
>> "Tiki team" during the TRM.
>> At a point that I would say to our VIP (the Tiki team): "setup any 
>> date time that is good for you and I will manage”. (or look at the 
>> recording) 🥴
>>
>> I understand some of the people with deep knowledge won’t never 
>> comes, that’s their choice and it’s ok.
>> But a few have this knowledge and users need them to share it so they 
>> can promote/document/contribute to the Tiki project.
>>
>>
>> *2/ Have a flexible second date*
>> I would be happy with one working TRM. ;-)
>>
>> However, if we want flexible meetings, we can use the matrix chat and 
>> setup a meeting on the go (it happened several times).
>> As not all uses the Matrix chat, may be those meetings should be 
>> announced in the dev list. (But informal is what it is… no guaranties)
>>
>> —
>>
>> May be most people coding and using Tiki are not interested anymore 
>> in TRM and it is not really a problem with the schedule.
>> 3 people discussing this is quite low….
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bernard
>>
>>
>>> On 23 Apr 2023, at 2:02, Marc Laporte <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Bernard,
>>>
>>> I would love to participate more often, and I have many answers to 
>>> questions that people will ask (ex.: what is roadmap for feature 
>>> XYZ?). However, as a CEO of a growing company, and a volunteer in 
>>> various organizations, my schedule fills up quickly. I am always 
>>> available for emergencies, but I refuse to be an enabler of an 
>>> inefficient process. And thus, I won't cancel/move my other meetings 
>>> because the roundtable was confirmed a few days before it is held.
>>>
>>> It takes less time (FOR EVERYONE) to plan a meeting in 3 months than 
>>> in 3 weeks because almost everyone is available if you book them 3 
>>> months ahead of time, assuming you pick a time appropriate for all 
>>> timezones of your target audience. But if you book people 3 weeks 
>>> before, you need to use a tool like 
>>> https://doc.tiki.org/PluginConvene and everyone needs to invest more 
>>> time. Block all potential meeting dates, vote, then, stay informed 
>>> of when meeting is confirmed, and free up other slots.
>>>
>>> As you now, I manage a team. I want my colleagues to participate to 
>>> these events. They can learn, and they can share. But as a company 
>>> policy, we don't impose work schedules. Team members make their own 
>>> schedule, and they adapt for the few times we have team meetings. 
>>> Thus, late announcements of monthly round tables make it that we 
>>> don't even convey that there will be a meeting.
>>>
>>> If you plan the meetings 12 months ahead of time, they can be useful 
>>> to help organize other things, like branching dates or release 
>>> dates. We just picked the dates for the branching and release of 
>>> Tiki 26.0, and if we knew when the next roundtable was, it would 
>>> been taken into consideration.
>>>
>>> If you plan the meetings months ahead of time, we can permanently 
>>> have a banner on all *.tiki.org sites which says: "Next community 
>>> meeting in 22 days. Click here to add to your calendar, click here 
>>> for a browser reminder 1 hour before the meeting, etc."
>>>
>>> So planning monthly meetings on short notice:
>>> * Takes more time from everybody (organizers and participants)
>>> * Reduces participation of existing community
>>> * Reduces the opportunity for synergistic scheduling * Reduces the 
>>> opportunity for potential new community members to know about it, 
>>> and join.
>>>
>>> So my recommendation is to pick the same day/time every month and 
>>> schedule/announce them 12 months in advance. So everyone can block 
>>> those times in their schedule. You can look at past votes to see 
>>> what are general preferences. I guarantee that this will have a huge 
>>> impact.
>>>
>>> It is very similar to when we didn't have scheduled Tiki releases. 
>>> By announcing a release schedule, the whole community could 
>>> self-organize to fit their individual plans within a larger 
>>> community plan: https://tiki.org/Tiki-Versions
>>>
>>> Here is an associated concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmergy
>>>
>>>
>>> As an example: Jitsi, and I am copy-pasting their info:
>>> ----
>>> Recording of Jitsi's bi-weekly community call. This is where the 
>>> Jitsi team shares their latest development status and plans. 
>>>  Community developers can ask about issues and make requests 
>>> directly with the Jitsi development team.
>>>
>>> Join us every-other Monday at 10:30 Central US - 
>>> https://meet.jit.si/TheCall.
>>> Visit jitsi.org for more details.
>>> ----
>>> Mautic has something similar.
>>>
>>> FYI, we have some team members assigned to work on this:
>>> https://meetingfacilitator.dev4.evoludata.com/
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 10:51:24 +0300 Tiki developers 
>>> [email protected] said
>>>
>>>> Hello All, We have a TRM today at 13UTC and I would like to share 
>>>> some thoughts… TRM participation is down to a point that I wonder 
>>>> if there is any interest
>>>> to keep and maintain them… End of 2022… ahem let’s skip to 2023. 01 
>>>> few people (fosdem meeting) 02 was cancelled 03 was only Gary and 
>>>> me 04 … not a lot of people express interest to join I wrote this 
>>>> because I hope we can keep a formal regular meeting between
>>>> members and new comers of the Tiki project. Those meetings still 
>>>> have interest for: - Announcement/status of things to come: release 
>>>> process, change of
>>>> technology discussion (bs5, PHP8, etc) - Demonstration of new 
>>>> additions in Tiki or better way to use the existing - Human/social 
>>>> relations between members of the community —— In the past they had 
>>>> an interest for: - Discuss revamp or addition of stuff - Vote on a 
>>>> decision - Tiki.o websites decisions or changes - Tiki Association 
>>>> Those are happening outside of the TRM since a while. It allowed to 
>>>> have more
>>>> topics filling the TRM planning. —— With fewer point of interest, 
>>>> it is very hard to maintain TRM if the meetings
>>>> are not regularly organized and offer interesting topics every 
>>>> month Announcements Having 2 to 4 announcements per year for 
>>>> release status or branching is not
>>>> enough to fill the TRM. (Tiki25.0 was the last release discussion 
>>>> Nov 2022) Technology addition or change requires volunteering from 
>>>> developers or people
>>>> involved and having the knowledge. (not happening) Demonstrations 
>>>> Requires volunteering from developers or people that have things to 
>>>> show to
>>>> the other. (Volunteers are rare and it can’t be always the same 
>>>> members) Personally I think that with a continuous flow of 
>>>> additions in Tiki we should
>>>> have 2 TRM per month. A lot of stuff is added, very few knows and
>>>> documentation with samples/usecases to attract people on Tiki don’t 
>>>> follow
>>>> 🥴 Human/social relations between members of the community While 
>>>> essential in my mind and almost the reason I keep coming, this is not
>>>> enough… See the usual suspect (stolen from JonnyB I admit) in a few 
>>>> hours, Bernard
>>>
>>>
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