Re: What to do to get new users

On 16-10-2024 11:07, Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-pascal wrote:
>
> On 10/16/24 2:07 AM, Rainer Stratmann via fpc-pascal wrote:
>> At the Lazarus Congress in Cologne in October 2024, it ended up being 
>> very
>> interesting. An important question came up.
>>
>> Why are no new users coming to Lazarus/Freepascal?
>> Why do we find it so difficult?
>> How can we get new, younger users to come to us?
>>
>> The same questions came up over a year ago at a Freepascal/Lazarus 
>> meeting in
>> Backnang.
>>
>> I have some answers:
>>
>> - The official Freepascal website doesn't look like the project is 
>> very lively.
>
> Maybe another redesign is necessary? Unfortunately, good compiler 
> developers often aren't very good at web design, and someone has to 
> contribute this. Look at the gcc or the llvm site, it's even worse. :)
>
> https://gcc.gnu.org/
>
> https://llvm.org/
>
> Or maybe, it's better? I don't know. Maybe explain what do you mean by 
> "doesn't look like the project is very lively". Maybe we should post 
> updates more often?
>
>>
>> - Lazarus looks very complicated with its many windows. And it is also
>> relatively complicated to understand and use. There are too many 
>> options that
>> are too nested.
> Kinda agree, at least for beginners and for small programs. How about 
> the console IDE? I sometimes prefer it for small programs. But for 
> large programs, nothing beats Lazarus.
>> - Crosscompiling: The compiler file name is hidden in Tools - 
>> Settings instead
>> of in the project settings. I found this out after some time. Since 
>> it was
>> nowhere to be found in the project settings I first thought it might 
>> be hard-
>> coded!
>>
>> - Linux: All relevant files (executable files, configuration files, 
>> source code,
>> etc.) are scattered all over the Linux system. This is very 
>> complicated again.
>> If Lazarus/Freepascal were a Linux system program it would make 
>> sense. But it
>> is NOT a Linux system program. The chance that it will be used by 
>> several
>> users on a multi-user system is close to zero.
>
> Free Pascal is exactly as "scattered" all over the Linux system, as 
> gcc, clang, rust and pretty much any other compiler. How is this 
> exactly a problem, since all major distros ship fpc as an official 
> package and it is used to build other packages as well? It's not 
> exactly difficult to do e.g. on Fedora:
>
> sudo dnf install fpc
>
> or
>
> sudo dnf install lazarus
>
> Even strange distros like NixOS ship fpc. I'm sorry, but I don't get 
> it, how is this a problem? Maybe for people who are new and want to 
> get into FPC development and want to build it from source? But 
> definitely not for new users.
>
If  I do a "apt-cache policy lazarus" it looks like it is an old version 
that get installed.

pi@raspberrypi:~ $ apt-cache policy lazarus
lazarus:
   Installed: (none)
   Candidate: 2.2.6+dfsg2-2
   Version table:
      2.2.6+dfsg2-2 500
         500 http://raspbian.raspberrypi.com/raspbian bookworm/main 
armhf Packages

Carsten
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