RE: Proxy Coupling Technology
"ron.hilton" <[email protected]> Tue, 5 Oct 2010 11:07:43 -0600
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Tony,
You raise some good points, perhaps better addressed on Hercules-advocacy.
So I will cross-post my response this time, and you and others can respond
to whichever list is most appropriate. My hope is to keep the discussion
mainly technical, but here are my thoughts on the legal side.
I doubt that this would be the first time that proprietary mainframe
software has been run on Hercules, and with the appropriate licenses it
should be quite legal to do so. Hercules, being an open-source
implementation of a proprietary (albeit defacto standard) architecture, will
likely never constitute a purely "open" software ecosystem in the same sense
as GNU or the like.
On the question of patents, let me first speak to the issue of software
patentability. Although I am a strong advocate of open standards and
open-source software, I think that there is no doubt that software,
including Hercules and the programs that run on it, represents patentable
subject matter in general. And the courts, including the Supreme Court in
the recent Bilski decision, have consistently supported that conclusion.
Some try to argue that "software is just math" because some software source
code resembles mathematical equations, and abstract ideas such as pure math
are not patentable. The truth is that all engineering, which is the domain
of patentable art, is mathematically based. My advice to the open-source
community, including Hercules, would be to quit fighting a losing battle
against software patents. Instead, fight fire with fire. The best defense
against software patents is a good offense. Hercules should create or join a
"software patent commons" and actively start to build its own strong patent
portfolio. That is the way the patent system works - just like MAD
("mutually assured destruction"). A patent is a right to exclude others from
practicing an invention. Only when both sides have a patent arsenal does
cooperation and progress occur.
Regarding the PSC software, it is proprietary (e.g. copyrighted) and the
proxy-coupling technology upon which it is based is also patent-pending. But
as you correctly pointed out, that intellectual property protection applies
only to the PCT-based "software" and not to "hardware" functionality in
Hercules that exists now or may be developed in the future in response to my
proposal/invitation. Indeed, I would encourage any Herculean who develops a
novel PCT assist for Hercules to go right ahead and patent it if possible,
and assign the rights to the above-mentioned commons. Right now IBM holds
all of the cards in any potential patent dispute regarding Hercules, and
antitrust is the only counter to that. At least at PSI we had a few patents
on our side, and I suspect that helped to some extent in bringing IBM to the
bargaining table. Aside from protecting their mainframe monopoly, I think
they genuinely wanted some of PSI's novel technology.
Anyway, having been personally in IBM's legal cross-hairs as the founder of
PSI, I can sympathize with and am fully supportive of your or anyone else's
concerns to remain squeaky clean in this regard. But I think that what I am
proposing here is on solid legal ground and would at the very least not make
the situation for Hercules any worse than it may or may not presently be.
But it's up to you. I'm just making the offer. I think it could be a fun
project for whomever may be interested.
Thanks,
Ron Hilton
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Tony Harminc
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Proxy Coupling Technology
On 5 October 2010 10:41, ron.hilton <[email protected]
<mailto:ron.hilton%40comcast.net> > wrote:
> So I would be happy to see Hercules
> incorporate internal cross-platform assists in support of PCT software,
and
> to that end PSC would be willing to provide a free test license to any
> Hercules developer to run selected PSC applications on Hercules. Just
> contact me off-list if you are interested. Although the PSC software is
> proprietary, any improvements to Hercules itself in support of PCT would
of
> course be open source and belong to the Hercules community.
Hmmm... The Proprietary rubber meets the Open Source road. I can't
speak for anyone else, but I would want to see a pretty clear patent
licence or statement of non assertion wrt to any open source code
developed based on this offer. I'd think it wouldn't be a problem for
PSC, because as you point out, we're talking of different layers - the
"hardware" and "software" parts. But it would be a shame to see code
written for and even incorporated into Hercules that later (quite
possibly after PSC's acquisition by another player with a different
attitude...) runs afoul of some patent claims. If IBM can assert that
Hercules is violating hardware patents that Hercules doesn't even
implement in its emulation (e.g. Sysplex), well - anyone can assert
anything, and tie things up in the courts for years.
I'm sure your offer is made in the utmost good faith; regrettably, in
the current climate the details have to be got right too.
Tony H.
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<p>Tony,<br>
<br>
You raise some good points, perhaps better addressed on Hercules-advocacy.<br>
So I will cross-post my response this time, and you and others can respond<br>
to whichever list is most appropriate. My hope is to keep the discussion<br>
mainly technical, but here are my thoughts on the legal side.<br>
<br>
I doubt that this would be the first time that proprietary mainframe<br>
software has been run on Hercules, and with the appropriate licenses it<br>
should be quite legal to do so. Hercules, being an open-source<br>
implementation of a proprietary (albeit defacto standard) architecture, will<br>
likely never constitute a purely "open" software ecosystem in the same sense<br>
as GNU or the like.<br>
<br>
On the question of patents, let me first speak to the issue of software<br>
patentability. Although I am a strong advocate of open standards and<br>
open-source software, I think that there is no doubt that software,<br>
including Hercules and the programs that run on it, represents patentable<br>
subject matter in general. And the courts, including the Supreme Court in<br>
the recent Bilski decision, have consistently supported that conclusion.<br>
Some try to argue that "software is just math" because some software source<br>
code resembles mathematical equations, and abstract ideas such as pure math<br>
are not patentable. The truth is that all engineering, which is the domain<br>
of patentable art, is mathematically based. My advice to the open-source<br>
community, including Hercules, would be to quit fighting a losing battle<br>
against software patents. Instead, fight fire with fire. The best defense<br>
against software patents is a good offense. Hercules should create or join a<br>
"software patent commons" and actively start to build its own strong patent<br>
portfolio. That is the way the patent system works - just like MAD<br>
("mutually assured destruction"). A patent is a right to exclude others from<br>
practicing an invention. Only when both sides have a patent arsenal does<br>
cooperation and progress occur.<br>
<br>
Regarding the PSC software, it is proprietary (e.g. copyrighted) and the<br>
proxy-coupling technology upon which it is based is also patent-pending. But<br>
as you correctly pointed out, that intellectual property protection applies<br>
only to the PCT-based "software" and not to "hardware" functionality in<br>
Hercules that exists now or may be developed in the future in response to my<br>
proposal/invitation. Indeed, I would encourage any Herculean who develops a<br>
novel PCT assist for Hercules to go right ahead and patent it if possible,<br>
and assign the rights to the above-mentioned commons. Right now IBM holds<br>
all of the cards in any potential patent dispute regarding Hercules, and<br>
antitrust is the only counter to that. At least at PSI we had a few patents<br>
on our side, and I suspect that helped to some extent in bringing IBM to the<br>
bargaining table. Aside from protecting their mainframe monopoly, I think<br>
they genuinely wanted some of PSI's novel technology.<br>
<br>
Anyway, having been personally in IBM's legal cross-hairs as the founder of<br>
PSI, I can sympathize with and am fully supportive of your or anyone else's<br>
concerns to remain squeaky clean in this regard. But I think that what I am<br>
proposing here is on solid legal ground and would at the very least not make<br>
the situation for Hercules any worse than it may or may not presently be.<br>
But it's up to you. I'm just making the offer. I think it could be a fun<br>
project for whomever may be interested.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Ron Hilton<br>
<br>
_____ <br>
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:hercules-390%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:hercules-390%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a>] On<br>
Behalf Of Tony Harminc<br>
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:12 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:hercules-390%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a><br>
Subject: Re: [hercules-390] Proxy Coupling Technology<br>
<br>
On 5 October 2010 10:41, ron.hilton <<a href="mailto:ron.hilton%40comcast.net">[email protected]</a><br>
<mailto:ron.hilton%40comcast.net> > wrote:<br>
> So I would be happy to see Hercules<br>
> incorporate internal cross-platform assists in support of PCT software,<br>
and<br>
> to that end PSC would be willing to provide a free test license to any<br>
> Hercules developer to run selected PSC applications on Hercules. Just<br>
> contact me off-list if you are interested. Although the PSC software is<br>
> proprietary, any improvements to Hercules itself in support of PCT would<br>
of<br>
> course be open source and belong to the Hercules community.<br>
<br>
Hmmm... The Proprietary rubber meets the Open Source road. I can't<br>
speak for anyone else, but I would want to see a pretty clear patent<br>
licence or statement of non assertion wrt to any open source code<br>
developed based on this offer. I'd think it wouldn't be a problem for<br>
PSC, because as you point out, we're talking of different layers - the<br>
"hardware" and "software" parts. But it would be a shame to see code<br>
written for and even incorporated into Hercules that later (quite<br>
possibly after PSC's acquisition by another player with a different<br>
attitude...) runs afoul of some patent claims. If IBM can assert that<br>
Hercules is violating hardware patents that Hercules doesn't even<br>
implement in its emulation (e.g. Sysplex), well - anyone can assert<br>
anything, and tie things up in the courts for years.<br>
<br>
I'm sure your offer is made in the utmost good faith; regrettably, in<br>
the current climate the details have to be got right too.<br>
<br>
Tony H.<br>
<br>
No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<br>
Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3178 - Release Date: 10/05/10<br>
00:34:00<br>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br>
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