Re: RE: [hercules-390] Re: RESOLVED: HDL: no dependency section in hdt3420; devtype 3420 not recognized
Mike Schwab <[email protected]> Tue, 8 May 2012 15:09:59 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.emulators.hercules390.advocacy |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAJTOO58Onna+rLXQ9MBidH5zA9c-cA-12d6WOBjPCGy6nK+SuA@mail.gmail.com> |
--FZegJiGmiW8MJAaXm1USwFbnWXCLcLlAqn1PRQ- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And the bills you don't pay get rolled over into next years increased rate that cause even more people to file for bankruptcy. Until everyone gets insurance that pays most bills (single payer). Illinois has a Medicare program, but no dentist accepts their payments. Medicaid MDs are few and far between. Medicare (over 65) is not much more. Ever see Sicko? http://sickothemovie.com/ How about 'The Awful Truth' first episode segment http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0915881/ "Funeral at an HMO" about several people dying due to denied insurance approval. On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:36 PM, "Fish" (David B. Trout) <fish-6N/[email protected]> wrote: > somitcw wrote: >> Fish wrote: > > [...] >> > (**) It is absolutely FREAKING **>> OUTRAGEOUS <<** >> >the cost of healthcare in this country!! =A0>8-< >> >> =A0 =A0You don't want us to be number one in healthcare cost >> in the world anymore? > > I never said that nor implied it. > > I was simply lamenting the total cost of a few visits to the hospital. > > My wife caught pneumonia on New Year's day a year ago. Called a taxi and > told them to take us to the hospital. (We haven't owned a car in over 15 > years and so rely on public transportation.) > > They took us to the "wrong" hospital. They took us to one we had never be= en > to before, but a hospital is a hospital, right? > > She was in a room for a grand total of ABOUT 6 hours. In that 6 hours the= y > gave her some IV solution. They gave her some inhalation therapy. They to= ok > an x-ray. They reviewed the x-ray, talked to her for 15 minutes, prescrib= ed > some medication and sent us home. > > Four days later she was still feeling badly, so we called our "normal" > hospital (the one we usually go to). They said to bring her in immediatel= y. > We did so. > > THEY went through the exact same procedure: IV, inhalation therapy, x-ray= , > 15 minutes with the doctor, here's your prescription now get out of here. > Time spent: about 6 hours again. > > My visits were for sciatica. They left me in a room for a hour or two, ga= ve > me some meds (opiates; I was in extreme pain), did a leg lift examination= , > prescribed different meds, sent me home. About three weeks later I went > through the same procedure again (the meds only lasted less than a week a= nd > then the pain came back (heh! no pun intended) IN FORCE. Worse than befor= e. > That's why I went back.), but this time demanded an x-ray or MRI or > whatever, to determine what the underlying CAUSE was so we could treat TH= AT > instead of simply treating the fucking SYMPTOMS like they were. > > Had an MRI done under sedation (general anesthesia). > > Grand total so far (that we KNOW of; they keep sending bills from many > different places. From different departments in the hospital, from differ= ent > doctor groups, medical groups, etc. We got bills from over a dozen differ= ent > places!) was almost $14,000. (The actual total is probably much more than > that but that was the total at the time we filed for bankruptcy). > > $14,000+ for what? > > 6 hours in a room, twice. > 2-3 hours in a room, twice, > 2 x-rays. > Some medication. > A grand total of about 30 minutes attention from the nursing staff. > A grand total of about 20-30 minutes talking to a doctor. > > Is that fair? > > In my opinion it is not. > > The only reason they're charging so much is they can get away with it. > > And my "they" I mean the entire medical industry. The drug manufacturers. > The insurance companies. (You wouldn't believe what they charge a doctor = for > malpractice insurance these days!) The hospitals. The MRI machine and x-r= ay > machine manufacturers. The manufacturers of plastic tubing and plastic > hoses. The manufacturers of hospital beds. Oxygen supply companies. Food > service. Etc, etc, etc... > > It's like the military that gets charged $600 for a toilet seat. It's nut= s. > > It's pure capitalism at its worse. They know they've got us by the balls. > When we're sick or in pain or our very life is threatened, they can charg= e > whatever outrageous price they want because they know we'll pay it. We ca= n't > "shop around" when it's an emergency. > > For routine doctor visits, yeah, we can shop around. But most of them are > working for the insurance industry. > > "Medical insurance" > > Think about what that means! > > Insurance is a business wherein you pay money without ever expecting to g= et > it back. No one expects to have an accident or plans to have one or > eventually WANTS to have one. The only thing they EXPECT is that, god > forbid, if/when they DO happen to need medical attention, that it's paid > for. That's why they're paying their premium! > > But insurance companies HATE paying claims, because paying claims is a > "loss". They lose money when they pay claims, so they go to great lengths= to > purposely AVOID having to pay claims, so they can make the maximum profit > possible. > > A profit at the "expense" of the very people they "claim" they are trying= to > help! > > It's nuts! > > Their incentive is to *deny* claims. Their incentive is to *deny* medical > attention. Their incentive is BACKWARDS! > > Why? Because they're an INSURANCE business. > > Before medical practice got fucked things up with "managed health care" > (i.e. the medical insurance scam), there were just doctors. People with > medical skills that hung a shingle out and offered people their services = for > a reasonable fee. > > Many of them came to your house with their little black bag when you call= ed > them. When was the last time you saw that? > > In those days if you didn't like the SERVICE your doctor was giving you, = you > went to a different one. He lost business, the other one gained. > > The incentive was to provide the best service possible for the best price= ! > If you didn't provide good service or if your prices were too high, you > didn't make money (or as much) due to lack of customers. > > Thus the incentive BEFORE the insurance industry fucked things up, was to > PROVIDE medical care, not to deny it like today! > > Today's bullshit system makes me sick to my stomach. > > Why can't people just do the right thing instead of whatever they can get > away with to make a buck? > > Call me an idealist. I firmly believe that if one does the right the mone= y > will eventually come. > > But unfortunately the bad guys (i.e. capitalists with no morals) prefer t= o > short-circuit the system and screw over anyone and everyone they can get > away with in order to make some short term fast money, so they can skip t= own > and repeat the whole thing all over again. > > It's sickening. > > Literally. > > -- > "Fish"=A0(David B. Trout) > [email protected] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > --=20 Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? --FZegJiGmiW8MJAaXm1USwFbnWXCLcLlAqn1PRQ- Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/htm= l4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <body style=3D"background-color: #fff;"> <span style=3D"display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;"> <div id=3D"ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-text" > =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p>And the bills you don't pay get rolled over into next years increa= sed<br> rate that cause even more people to file for bankruptcy. Until<br> everyone gets insurance that pays most bills (single payer).<br> <br> Illinois has a Medicare program, but no dentist accepts their<br> payments. Medicaid MDs are few and far between. Medicare (over 65)<br> is not much more.<br> <br> Ever see Sicko? <a href=3D"http://sickothemovie.com/">http://sickothemovie= .com/</a><br> <br> How about 'The Awful Truth' first episode segment<br> <a href=3D"http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0915881/">http://www.imdb.com/title/= tt0915881/</a> "Funeral at an HMO" about several<br> people dying due to denied insurance approval.<br> <br> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:36 PM, "Fish" (David B. Trout)<br> <<a href=3D"mailto:fish%40infidels.org">fish-6N/[email protected]</a>> wrote:= <br> > somitcw wrote:<br> >> Fish wrote:<br> ><br> > [...]<br> >> > (**) It is absolutely FREAKING **>> OUTRAGEOUS <<= **<br> >> >the cost of healthcare in this country!! =A0>8-<<br> >><br> >> =A0 =A0You don't want us to be number one in healthcare cost<br> >> in the world anymore?<br> ><br> > I never said that nor implied it.<br> ><br> > I was simply lamenting the total cost of a few visits to the hospital.= <br> ><br> > My wife caught pneumonia on New Year's day a year ago. Called a taxi a= nd<br> > told them to take us to the hospital. (We haven't owned a car in over = 15<br> > years and so rely on public transportation.)<br> ><br> > They took us to the "wrong" hospital. They took us to one we= had never been<br> > to before, but a hospital is a hospital, right?<br> ><br> > She was in a room for a grand total of ABOUT 6 hours. In that 6 hours = they<br> > gave her some IV solution. They gave her some inhalation therapy. They= took<br> > an x-ray. They reviewed the x-ray, talked to her for 15 minutes, presc= ribed<br> > some medication and sent us home.<br> ><br> > Four days later she was still feeling badly, so we called our "no= rmal"<br> > hospital (the one we usually go to). They said to bring her in immedia= tely.<br> > We did so.<br> ><br> > THEY went through the exact same procedure: IV, inhalation therapy, x-= ray,<br> > 15 minutes with the doctor, here's your prescription now get out of he= re.<br> > Time spent: about 6 hours again.<br> ><br> > My visits were for sciatica. They left me in a room for a hour or two,= gave<br> > me some meds (opiates; I was in extreme pain), did a leg lift examinat= ion,<br> > prescribed different meds, sent me home. About three weeks later I wen= t<br> > through the same procedure again (the meds only lasted less than a wee= k and<br> > then the pain came back (heh! no pun intended) IN FORCE. Worse than be= fore.<br> > That's why I went back.), but this time demanded an x-ray or MRI or<br= > > whatever, to determine what the underlying CAUSE was so we could treat= THAT<br> > instead of simply treating the fucking SYMPTOMS like they were.<br> ><br> > Had an MRI done under sedation (general anesthesia).<br> ><br> > Grand total so far (that we KNOW of; they keep sending bills from many= <br> > different places. From different departments in the hospital, from dif= ferent<br> > doctor groups, medical groups, etc. We got bills from over a dozen dif= ferent<br> > places!) was almost $14,000. (The actual total is probably much more t= han<br> > that but that was the total at the time we filed for bankruptcy).<br> ><br> > $14,000+ for what?<br> ><br> > 6 hours in a room, twice.<br> > 2-3 hours in a room, twice,<br> > 2 x-rays.<br> > Some medication.<br> > A grand total of about 30 minutes attention from the nursing staff.<br= > > A grand total of about 20-30 minutes talking to a doctor.<br> ><br> > Is that fair?<br> ><br> > In my opinion it is not.<br> ><br> > The only reason they're charging so much is they can get away with it.= <br> ><br> > And my "they" I mean the entire medical industry. The drug m= anufacturers.<br> > The insurance companies. (You wouldn't believe what they charge a doct= or for<br> > malpractice insurance these days!) The hospitals. The MRI machine and = x-ray<br> > machine manufacturers. The manufacturers of plastic tubing and plastic= <br> > hoses. The manufacturers of hospital beds. Oxygen supply companies. Fo= od<br> > service. Etc, etc, etc...<br> ><br> > It's like the military that gets charged $600 for a toilet seat. It's = nuts.<br> ><br> > It's pure capitalism at its worse. They know they've got us by the bal= ls.<br> > When we're sick or in pain or our very life is threatened, they can ch= arge<br> > whatever outrageous price they want because they know we'll pay it. We= can't<br> > "shop around" when it's an emergency.<br> ><br> > For routine doctor visits, yeah, we can shop around. But most of them = are<br> > working for the insurance industry.<br> ><br> > "Medical insurance"<br> ><br> > Think about what that means!<br> ><br> > Insurance is a business wherein you pay money without ever expecting t= o get<br> > it back. No one expects to have an accident or plans to have one or<br= > > eventually WANTS to have one. The only thing they EXPECT is that, god<= br> > forbid, if/when they DO happen to need medical attention, that it's pa= id<br> > for. That's why they're paying their premium!<br> ><br> > But insurance companies HATE paying claims, because paying claims is a= <br> > "loss". They lose money when they pay claims, so they go to = great lengths to<br> > purposely AVOID having to pay claims, so they can make the maximum pro= fit<br> > possible.<br> ><br> > A profit at the "expense" of the very people they "clai= m" they are trying to<br> > help!<br> ><br> > It's nuts!<br> ><br> > Their incentive is to *deny* claims. Their incentive is to *deny* medi= cal<br> > attention. Their incentive is BACKWARDS!<br> ><br> > Why? Because they're an INSURANCE business.<br> ><br> > Before medical practice got fucked things up with "managed health= care"<br> > (i.e. the medical insurance scam), there were just doctors. People wit= h<br> > medical skills that hung a shingle out and offered people their servic= es for<br> > a reasonable fee.<br> ><br> > Many of them came to your house with their little black bag when you c= alled<br> > them. When was the last time you saw that?<br> ><br> > In those days if you didn't like the SERVICE your doctor was giving yo= u, you<br> > went to a different one. He lost business, the other one gained.<br> ><br> > The incentive was to provide the best service possible for the best pr= ice!<br> > If you didn't provide good service or if your prices were too high, yo= u<br> > didn't make money (or as much) due to lack of customers.<br> ><br> > Thus the incentive BEFORE the insurance industry fucked things up, was= to<br> > PROVIDE medical care, not to deny it like today!<br> ><br> > Today's bullshit system makes me sick to my stomach.<br> ><br> > Why can't people just do the right thing instead of whatever they can = get<br> > away with to make a buck?<br> ><br> > Call me an idealist. I firmly believe that if one does the right the m= oney<br> > will eventually come.<br> ><br> > But unfortunately the bad guys (i.e. capitalists with no morals) prefe= r to<br> > short-circuit the system and screw over anyone and everyone they can g= et<br> > away with in order to make some short term fast money, so they can ski= p town<br> > and repeat the whole thing all over again.<br> ><br> > It's sickening.<br> ><br> > Literally.<br> ><br> > --<br> > "Fish"=A0(David B. Trout)<br> > =A0<a href=3D"mailto:fish%40softdevlabs.com">[email protected]</a><= br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> > ------------------------------------<br> ><br> > Yahoo! Groups Links<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> <br> -- <br> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA<br> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?<br> </p> </div> =20=20=20=20=20 <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <div style=3D"color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20 =20=20=20 <div id=3D"ygrp-actbar" style=3D"clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; whit= e-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"> <div> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRe%3A%20%5Bherc= ules-advocacy%5D%20RE%3A%20%5Bhercules-390%5D%20Re%3A%20RESOLVED%3A%20HDL%3= A%20no%20dependency%20section%20in%20hdt3420%3B%20devtype%203420%20not%20re= cognized" style=3D"margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"> Reply to <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">sender</span></a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRe%3A= %20%5Bhercules-advocacy%5D%20RE%3A%20%5Bhercules-390%5D%20Re%3A%20RESOLVED%= 3A%20HDL%3A%20no%20dependency%20section%20in%20hdt3420%3B%20devtype%203420%= 20not%20recognized"> Reply to <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">group</span></a> | <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-advocacy/post;= _ylc=3DX3oDMTJwMHEzOXBrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQwODM1ODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1= MDA3NzA5BG1zZ0lkAzEwMDQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM2NTA3ODA0?act=3D= reply&messageNum=3D1004">Reply <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">via web po= st</span></a> | <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-advocacy/pos= t;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJlbWJkZXI5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQwODM1ODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNz= A1MDA3NzA5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjUwNzgwNA--" style=3D"font-w= eight: 700;">Start a New Topic</a> </div> <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-advocacy/= message/1003;_ylc=3DX3oDMTM0ODdxbmNoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQwODM1ODYEZ3J= wc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BG1zZ0lkAzEwMDQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzM2NT= A3ODA0BHRwY0lkAzEwMDM-">Messages in this topic</a> (<span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">2</span>) </div>=20 <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id=3D"ygrp-vital" style=3D"background-color: #e0ecee; font-family: Ver= dana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"> <span id=3D"vithd" style=3D"font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-tran= sform: uppercase; ">Recent Activity:</span> <ul style=3D"list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inl= ine;"> </ul> =20=20=20=20 <div style=3D"clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: #1e66ae;"> <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-advocacy;_ylc=3DX3oDM= TJlcXB0aHZhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQwODM1ODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BHNl= YwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjUwNzgwNA--" style=3D"text-decoration: non= e;">Visit Your Group</a> </div> </div> =20=20 <div id=3D"ft" style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5p= x; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;"> <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJkMDBtajBoBF9TAzk3MzU5Nz= E0BGdycElkAzQwODM1ODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZ= QMxMzM2NTA3ODA0" style=3D"float: left;"><img src=3D"http://l.yimg.com/a/i/u= s/yg/logo/us.gif" height=3D"15" width=3D"137" alt=3D"Yahoo! 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