RE: RE: [hercules-390] Re: RESOLVED: HDL: no dependency section in hdt3420; devtype 3420 not recognized
"Rocky" <[email protected]> Wed, 9 May 2012 13:45:51 +0300
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.emulators.hercules390.advocacy |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--FcE0AmCMIzYEo7A2NTkxVpfTzjQeBr9lWxgDBP8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi guys - I have been reading your mails and wondering. I think I saw in a movies last year somebody say. "Every good Housewife knows that at the end of the month - the first ceck you write is to the bank for the mortgage and the second is to the Insurance co,"=20 I am over 70 and do a ot of travelling all over the world. Put those together and you know that I see a lot of docors - all over. You may be paying the most in the world for your medical care in the states= , but from my experience you are usually getting what you pay for. The experience you outline seems to be normal except for the bill. We lived in in the US for 12 years until 2008 - Our insurance cost us (wife an myself) more or less the same $14000 you were billed. Per year. But I had two operations (one serious) vroke a leg - had a stent put him - we both had colonsocopies twice and visited various doctors at least twice maybe tree times a month a month, Eye - GP - cardialogist - An several specalists for chronic conditions.immunilogy rheumitlogy related. Even had Hernia Looking back on that period, we think we got the best possibe care and attention. And we can pretty well compare that to other places in the world. So - Of course thats our experience only, but all in all we were very happy with the value received for Medical care in the US. We lived in Ct - Maybe that=92s a factor. I think that getting the rght insurance up front is the trick. It's not cheap - but we were covered from head to toe from the day we arrived until the day we left. And out of pocket expenses were really very minimal. Roc . -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of "Fish" (David B. Trout) Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 10:37 PM To: Hercules-Advocacy Subject: [hercules-advocacy] RE: [hercules-390] Re: RESOLVED: HDL: no dependency section in hdt3420; devtype 3420 not recognized somitcw wrote: > Fish wrote: [...] > > (**) It is absolutely FREAKING **>> OUTRAGEOUS <<** the cost of=20 > >healthcare in this country!! >8-< >=20 > You don't want us to be number one in healthcare cost in the world=20 > anymore? I never said that nor implied it. I was simply lamenting the total cost of a few visits to the hospital. My wife caught pneumonia on New Year's day a year ago. Called a taxi and told them to take us to the hospital. (We haven't owned a car in over 15 years and so rely on public transportation.) They took us to the "wrong" hospital. They took us to one we had never been to before, but a hospital is a hospital, right? She was in a room for a grand total of ABOUT 6 hours. In that 6 hours they gave her some IV solution. They gave her some inhalation therapy. They took an x-ray. They reviewed the x-ray, talked to her for 15 minutes, prescribed some medication and sent us home. Four days later she was still feeling badly, so we called our "normal" hospital (the one we usually go to). They said to bring her in immediately. We did so. THEY went through the exact same procedure: IV, inhalation therapy, x-ray, 15 minutes with the doctor, here's your prescription now get out of here. Time spent: about 6 hours again. My visits were for sciatica. They left me in a room for a hour or two, gave me some meds (opiates; I was in extreme pain), did a leg lift examination, prescribed different meds, sent me home. About three weeks later I went through the same procedure again (the meds only lasted less than a week and then the pain came back (heh! no pun intended) IN FORCE. Worse than before. That's why I went back.), but this time demanded an x-ray or MRI or whatever, to determine what the underlying CAUSE was so we could treat THAT instead of simply treating the fucking SYMPTOMS like they were. Had an MRI done under sedation (general anesthesia). Grand total so far (that we KNOW of; they keep sending bills from many different places. From different departments in the hospital, from differen= t doctor groups, medical groups, etc. We got bills from over a dozen differen= t places!) was almost $14,000. (The actual total is probably much more than that but that was the total at the time we filed for bankruptcy). $14,000+ for what? 6 hours in a room, twice. 2-3 hours in a room, twice, 2 x-rays. Some medication. A grand total of about 30 minutes attention from the nursing staff. A grand total of about 20-30 minutes talking to a doctor. Is that fair? In my opinion it is not. The only reason they're charging so much is they can get away with it. And my "they" I mean the entire medical industry. The drug manufacturers. The insurance companies. (You wouldn't believe what they charge a doctor fo= r malpractice insurance these days!) The hospitals. The MRI machine and x-ray machine manufacturers. The manufacturers of plastic tubing and plastic hoses. The manufacturers of hospital beds. Oxygen supply companies. Food service. Etc, etc, etc... It's like the military that gets charged $600 for a toilet seat. It's nuts. It's pure capitalism at its worse. They know they've got us by the balls. When we're sick or in pain or our very life is threatened, they can charge whatever outrageous price they want because they know we'll pay it. We can'= t "shop around" when it's an emergency. For routine doctor visits, yeah, we can shop around. But most of them are working for the insurance industry. "Medical insurance" Think about what that means! Insurance is a business wherein you pay money without ever expecting to get it back. No one expects to have an accident or plans to have one or eventually WANTS to have one. The only thing they EXPECT is that, god forbid, if/when they DO happen to need medical attention, that it's paid for. That's why they're paying their premium! But insurance companies HATE paying claims, because paying claims is a "loss". They lose money when they pay claims, so they go to great lengths t= o purposely AVOID having to pay claims, so they can make the maximum profit possible. A profit at the "expense" of the very people they "claim" they are trying t= o help! It's nuts! Their incentive is to *deny* claims. Their incentive is to *deny* medical attention. Their incentive is BACKWARDS! Why? Because they're an INSURANCE business. Before medical practice got fucked things up with "managed health care" (i.e. the medical insurance scam), there were just doctors. People with medical skills that hung a shingle out and offered people their services fo= r a reasonable fee. Many of them came to your house with their little black bag when you called them. When was the last time you saw that? In those days if you didn't like the SERVICE your doctor was giving you, yo= u went to a different one. He lost business, the other one gained. The incentive was to provide the best service possible for the best price! If you didn't provide good service or if your prices were too high, you didn't make money (or as much) due to lack of customers. Thus the incentive BEFORE the insurance industry fucked things up, was to PROVIDE medical care, not to deny it like today! Today's bullshit system makes me sick to my stomach. Why can't people just do the right thing instead of whatever they can get away with to make a buck? Call me an idealist. I firmly believe that if one does the right the money will eventually come. But unfortunately the bad guys (i.e. capitalists with no morals) prefer to short-circuit the system and screw over anyone and everyone they can get away with in order to make some short term fast money, so they can skip tow= n and repeat the whole thing all over again. It's sickening. Literally. -- "Fish"=A0(David B. Trout) [email protected] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links --FcE0AmCMIzYEo7A2NTkxVpfTzjQeBr9lWxgDBP8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/htm= l4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <body style=3D"background-color: #fff;"> <span style=3D"display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;"> <div id=3D"ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-text" > =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p>Hi guys -<br> I have been reading your mails and wondering.<br> <br> I think I saw in a movies last year somebody say.<br> "Every good Housewife knows that at the end of the month - the first c= eck<br> you write is to the bank for the mortgage and the second is to the<br> Insurance co," <br> <br> I am over 70 and do a ot of travelling all over the world. Put those<br> together and you know that I see a lot of docors - all over.<br> <br> You may be paying the most in the world for your medical care in the states= ,<br> but from my experience you are usually getting what you pay for.<br> <br> The experience you outline seems to be normal except for the bill.<br> <br> We lived in in the US for 12 years until 2008 - Our insurance cost us (wife= <br> an myself) more or less the same $14000 you were billed. Per year.<br> <br> But I had two operations (one serious) vroke a leg - had a stent put him -= <br> we both had colonsocopies twice and visited various doctors at least twice<= br> maybe tree times a month a month,<br> Eye - GP - cardialogist - An several specalists for chronic<br> conditions.immunilogy rheumitlogy related. Even had Hernia<br> <br> Looking back on that period, we think we got the best possibe care and<br> attention.<br> And we can pretty well compare that to other places in the world.<br> <br> So - Of course thats our experience only, but all in all we were very happy= <br> with the value received for Medical care in the US.<br> <br> We lived in Ct - Maybe that=92s a factor.<br> I think that getting the rght insurance up front is the trick.<br> It's not cheap - but we were covered from head to toe from the day we<br> arrived until the day we left.<br> And out of pocket expenses were really very minimal.<br> <br> Roc<br> <br> .<br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: <a href=3D"mailto:hercules-advocacy%40yahoogroups.com">hercules-advoc= [email protected]</a><br> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:hercules-advocacy%40yahoogroups.com">hercules-adv= [email protected]</a>] On Behalf Of "Fish" (David B.<br> Trout)<br> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 10:37 PM<br> To: Hercules-Advocacy<br> Subject: [hercules-advocacy] RE: [hercules-390] Re: RESOLVED: HDL: no<br> dependency section in hdt3420; devtype 3420 not recognized<br> <br> somitcw wrote:<br> > Fish wrote:<br> <br> [...]<br> > > (**) It is absolutely FREAKING **>> OUTRAGEOUS <<** t= he cost of <br> > >healthcare in this country!! >8-<<br> > <br> > You don't want us to be number one in healthcare cost in the world = <br> > anymore?<br> <br> I never said that nor implied it.<br> <br> I was simply lamenting the total cost of a few visits to the hospital.<br> <br> My wife caught pneumonia on New Year's day a year ago. Called a taxi and<br= > told them to take us to the hospital. (We haven't owned a car in over 15<br= > years and so rely on public transportation.)<br> <br> They took us to the "wrong" hospital. They took us to one we had = never been<br> to before, but a hospital is a hospital, right?<br> <br> She was in a room for a grand total of ABOUT 6 hours. In that 6 hours they<= br> gave her some IV solution. They gave her some inhalation therapy. They took= <br> an x-ray. They reviewed the x-ray, talked to her for 15 minutes, prescribed= <br> some medication and sent us home.<br> <br> Four days later she was still feeling badly, so we called our "normal&= quot;<br> hospital (the one we usually go to). They said to bring her in immediately.= <br> We did so.<br> <br> THEY went through the exact same procedure: IV, inhalation therapy, x-ray,<= br> 15 minutes with the doctor, here's your prescription now get out of here.<b= r> Time spent: about 6 hours again.<br> <br> My visits were for sciatica. They left me in a room for a hour or two, gave= <br> me some meds (opiates; I was in extreme pain), did a leg lift examination,<= br> prescribed different meds, sent me home. About three weeks later I went<br> through the same procedure again (the meds only lasted less than a week and= <br> then the pain came back (heh! no pun intended) IN FORCE. Worse than before.= <br> That's why I went back.), but this time demanded an x-ray or MRI or<br> whatever, to determine what the underlying CAUSE was so we could treat THAT= <br> instead of simply treating the fucking SYMPTOMS like they were.<br> <br> Had an MRI done under sedation (general anesthesia).<br> <br> Grand total so far (that we KNOW of; they keep sending bills from many<br> different places. From different departments in the hospital, from differen= t<br> doctor groups, medical groups, etc. We got bills from over a dozen differen= t<br> places!) was almost $14,000. (The actual total is probably much more than<b= r> that but that was the total at the time we filed for bankruptcy).<br> <br> $14,000+ for what?<br> <br> 6 hours in a room, twice.<br> 2-3 hours in a room, twice,<br> 2 x-rays.<br> Some medication.<br> A grand total of about 30 minutes attention from the nursing staff.<br> A grand total of about 20-30 minutes talking to a doctor.<br> <br> Is that fair?<br> <br> In my opinion it is not.<br> <br> The only reason they're charging so much is they can get away with it.<br> <br> And my "they" I mean the entire medical industry. The drug manufa= cturers.<br> The insurance companies. (You wouldn't believe what they charge a doctor fo= r<br> malpractice insurance these days!) The hospitals. The MRI machine and x-ray= <br> machine manufacturers. The manufacturers of plastic tubing and plastic<br> hoses. The manufacturers of hospital beds. Oxygen supply companies. Food<br= > service. Etc, etc, etc...<br> <br> It's like the military that gets charged $600 for a toilet seat. It's nuts.= <br> <br> It's pure capitalism at its worse. They know they've got us by the balls.<b= r> When we're sick or in pain or our very life is threatened, they can charge<= br> whatever outrageous price they want because they know we'll pay it. We can'= t<br> "shop around" when it's an emergency.<br> <br> For routine doctor visits, yeah, we can shop around. But most of them are<b= r> working for the insurance industry.<br> <br> "Medical insurance"<br> <br> Think about what that means!<br> <br> Insurance is a business wherein you pay money without ever expecting to get= <br> it back. No one expects to have an accident or plans to have one or<br> eventually WANTS to have one. The only thing they EXPECT is that, god<br> forbid, if/when they DO happen to need medical attention, that it's paid<br= > for. That's why they're paying their premium!<br> <br> But insurance companies HATE paying claims, because paying claims is a<br> "loss". They lose money when they pay claims, so they go to great= lengths to<br> purposely AVOID having to pay claims, so they can make the maximum profit<b= r> possible.<br> <br> A profit at the "expense" of the very people they "claim&quo= t; they are trying to<br> help!<br> <br> It's nuts!<br> <br> Their incentive is to *deny* claims. Their incentive is to *deny* medical<b= r> attention. Their incentive is BACKWARDS!<br> <br> Why? Because they're an INSURANCE business.<br> <br> Before medical practice got fucked things up with "managed health care= "<br> (i.e. the medical insurance scam), there were just doctors. People with<br> medical skills that hung a shingle out and offered people their services fo= r<br> a reasonable fee.<br> <br> Many of them came to your house with their little black bag when you called= <br> them. When was the last time you saw that?<br> <br> In those days if you didn't like the SERVICE your doctor was giving you, yo= u<br> went to a different one. He lost business, the other one gained.<br> <br> The incentive was to provide the best service possible for the best price!<= br> If you didn't provide good service or if your prices were too high, you<br> didn't make money (or as much) due to lack of customers.<br> <br> Thus the incentive BEFORE the insurance industry fucked things up, was to<b= r> PROVIDE medical care, not to deny it like today!<br> <br> Today's bullshit system makes me sick to my stomach.<br> <br> Why can't people just do the right thing instead of whatever they can get<b= r> away with to make a buck?<br> <br> Call me an idealist. I firmly believe that if one does the right the money<= br> will eventually come.<br> <br> But unfortunately the bad guys (i.e. capitalists with no morals) prefer to<= br> short-circuit the system and screw over anyone and everyone they can get<br= > away with in order to make some short term fast money, so they can skip tow= n<br> and repeat the whole thing all over again.<br> <br> It's sickening.<br> <br> Literally.<br> <br> --<br> "Fish"=A0(David B. Trout)<br> <a href=3D"mailto:fish%40softdevlabs.com">[email protected]</a><br> <br> ------------------------------------<br> <br> Yahoo! Groups Links<br> <br> </p> </div> =20=20=20=20=20 <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <div style=3D"color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20 =20=20=20 <div id=3D"ygrp-actbar" style=3D"clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; whit= e-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"> <div> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRE%3A%20%5Bhercule= s-advocacy%5D%20RE%3A%20%5Bhercules-390%5D%20Re%3A%20RESOLVED%3A%20HDL%3A%2= 0no%20dependency%20section%20in%20hdt3420%3B%20devtype%203420%20not%20recog= nized" style=3D"margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"> Reply to <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">sender</span></a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRE%3A= %20%5Bhercules-advocacy%5D%20RE%3A%20%5Bhercules-390%5D%20Re%3A%20RESOLVED%= 3A%20HDL%3A%20no%20dependency%20section%20in%20hdt3420%3B%20devtype%203420%= 20not%20recognized"> Reply to <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">group</span></a> | <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-advocacy/post;= _ylc=3DX3oDMTJwdWc2OTBqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQwODM1ODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1= MDA3NzA5BG1zZ0lkAzEwMDYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM2NTYwMzk5?act=3D= reply&messageNum=3D1006">Reply <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">via web po= st</span></a> | <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-advocacy/pos= t;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJlZGw0bjM1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQwODM1ODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNz= A1MDA3NzA5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjU2MDM5OQ--" style=3D"font-w= eight: 700;">Start a New Topic</a> </div> <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-advocacy/= message/1003;_ylc=3DX3oDMTM0ZzZyNzc4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQwODM1ODYEZ3J= wc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BG1zZ0lkAzEwMDYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzM2NT= YwMzk5BHRwY0lkAzEwMDM-">Messages in this topic</a> (<span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">4</span>) </div>=20 <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id=3D"ygrp-vital" style=3D"background-color: #e0ecee; font-family: Ver= dana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"> <span id=3D"vithd" style=3D"font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-tran= sform: uppercase; ">Recent Activity:</span> <ul style=3D"list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inl= ine;"> </ul> =20=20=20=20 <div style=3D"clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: #1e66ae;"> <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-advocacy;_ylc=3DX3oDM= TJldWpzZDZpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQwODM1ODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BHNl= YwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjU2MDM5OQ--" style=3D"text-decoration: non= e;">Visit Your Group</a> </div> </div> =20=20 <div id=3D"ft" style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5p= x; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;"> <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJkZG10NHIyBF9TAzk3MzU5Nz= E0BGdycElkAzQwODM1ODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZ= QMxMzM2NTYwMzk5" style=3D"float: left;"><img src=3D"http://l.yimg.com/a/i/u= s/yg/logo/us.gif" height=3D"15" width=3D"137" alt=3D"Yahoo! 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