RE: Re: DOS/VS or VM/370 under z/VM
"Dave" <[email protected]> Tue, 23 Nov 2010 19:12:45 -0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.emulators.hercules390.vm |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <3241686C1C4D42DB91BF24059C7D5F43@EMACHINE> |
--0erpbqpFcteH-MpMvx5evu8ZTugBIFA94ZV6iHQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected]=20 > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of kerravon86 > Sent: 23 November 2010 15:35 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [H390-VM] Re: DOS/VS or VM/370 under z/VM >=20 >=20 > --- In [email protected], Tony Harminc <tharminc@...> wrote: > > > > On 22 November 2010 19:02, kerravon86 <kerravon86@...> wrote: > >=20 > > > Is it possible to run VM/370 under z/VM? > >=20 > > In a word: no. > >=20 > > > I know that DOS/VS runs under VM/370, so if VM/370 runs=20 > under z/VM,=20 > > > then that would provide a way to run DOS/VS. > >=20 > > There are lots of cases where the tempting notion of using several=20 > > levels of VM to support an old architecture on modern=20 > hardware might=20 > > apply. Virtually none of them will work. >=20 > http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/mayjune09/coverstory/25 >081p2.aspx > >"The hardware handles both. But if the virtual machine is running another copy of z/VM, the CP running there will=20 >naturally issue a SIE to run a third-level guest. Because there's hardware support for only two levels of SIE, the first- >level CP intercepts the instruction and simulates it." > >VM/ESA presumably has the ability to interpret all >of the S/370 I/O and DAT instructions, in order to >run on a real S/390. Right? No, the CP in VM/ESA will always issue a SIE when dispatching a VM. If its nested less than two levels deep, the SIE just executes. It its more than two levels deep the assits don't work, and control is passed up to the VM that is two levels deep. It then issues the SIE on behalf of the third, fourth of fith level VM. The problem is that on older hardware SIE did allo= w 370/io to be simulated, on modern (64 bit capable hardware) it doesn't. >Therefore the limitation is in the hardware (in >our case Hercules), not having the ability to >stack more than 2 levels of SIE, right? No see above... >Just because IBM's hardware doesn't allow that, >is there any reason why Hercules can't be made to >do so? As far as I know Hercules only has one level of SIE nesting, not the two that real hardware has. So VM under VM on hercules will be slowish... >BFN. Paul. Dave ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links --0erpbqpFcteH-MpMvx5evu8ZTugBIFA94ZV6iHQ Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <body style="background-color: #fff;"> <span style="display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;"> <div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id="ygrp-text" > <p><br> <br> > -----Original Message-----<br> > From: <a href="mailto:H390-VM%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a> <br> > [mailto:<a href="mailto:H390-VM%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a>] On Behalf Of kerravon86<br> > Sent: 23 November 2010 15:35<br> > To: <a href="mailto:H390-VM%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a><br> > Subject: [H390-VM] Re: DOS/VS or VM/370 under z/VM<br> > <br> > <br> > --- In <a href="mailto:H390-VM%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]</a>, Tony Harminc <tharminc@...> wrote:<br> > ><br> > > On 22 November 2010 19:02, kerravon86 <kerravon86@...> wrote:<br> > > <br> > > > Is it possible to run VM/370 under z/VM?<br> > > <br> > > In a word: no.<br> > > <br> > > > I know that DOS/VS runs under VM/370, so if VM/370 runs <br> > under z/VM, <br> > > > then that would provide a way to run DOS/VS.<br> > > <br> > > There are lots of cases where the tempting notion of using several <br> > > levels of VM to support an old architecture on modern <br> > hardware might <br> > > apply. Virtually none of them will work.<br> > <br> > <a href="http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/mayjune09/coverstory/25">http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/mayjune09/coverstory/25</a><br> >081p2.aspx<br> ><br> >"The hardware handles both. But if the virtual machine is running another<br> copy of z/VM, the CP running there will <br> >naturally issue a SIE to run a third-level guest. Because there's hardware<br> support for only two levels of SIE, the first-<br> >level CP intercepts the instruction and simulates it."<br> ><br> >VM/ESA presumably has the ability to interpret all<br> >of the S/370 I/O and DAT instructions, in order to<br> >run on a real S/390. Right?<br> <br> No, the CP in VM/ESA will always issue a SIE when dispatching a VM. If its<br> nested less than two levels deep, the SIE just executes. It its more than<br> two levels deep the assits don't work, and control is passed up to the VM<br> that is two levels deep. It then issues the SIE on behalf of the third,<br> fourth of fith level VM. The problem is that on older hardware SIE did allow<br> 370/io to be simulated, on modern (64 bit capable hardware) it doesn't.<br> <br> >Therefore the limitation is in the hardware (in<br> >our case Hercules), not having the ability to<br> >stack more than 2 levels of SIE, right?<br> <br> No see above...<br> <br> >Just because IBM's hardware doesn't allow that,<br> >is there any reason why Hercules can't be made to<br> >do so?<br> <br> As far as I know Hercules only has one level of SIE nesting, not the two<br> that real hardware has. So VM under VM on hercules will be slowish...<br> <br> >BFN. Paul.<br> <br> Dave<br> <br> ------------------------------------<br> <br> Yahoo! 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