RE: Re: DOS/VS or VM/370 under z/VM
"Dave" <[email protected]> Tue, 23 Nov 2010 19:19:41 -0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.emulators.hercules390.vm |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <6B76E571F6354D298E265A4D81089F70@EMACHINE> |
--NhLdK3jyt9hnyaDr-8rspv9IUeO0u7outK0ZMpl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected]=20 > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave > Sent: 23 November 2010 19:13 > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [H390-VM] Re: DOS/VS or VM/370 under z/VM >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of kerravon86 > > Sent: 23 November 2010 15:35 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [H390-VM] Re: DOS/VS or VM/370 under z/VM > >=20 > >=20 > > --- In [email protected], Tony Harminc <tharminc@...> wrote: > > > > > > On 22 November 2010 19:02, kerravon86 <kerravon86@...> wrote: > > >=20 > > > > Is it possible to run VM/370 under z/VM? > > >=20 > > > In a word: no. > > >=20 > > > > I know that DOS/VS runs under VM/370, so if VM/370 runs > > under z/VM, > > > > then that would provide a way to run DOS/VS. > > >=20 > > > There are lots of cases where the tempting notion of using several > > > levels of VM to support an old architecture on modern=20 > > hardware might > > > apply. Virtually none of them will work. > >=20 > > http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/mayjune09/coverstory/25 > >081p2.aspx > > > >"The hardware handles both. But if the virtual machine is running=20 > >another > copy of z/VM, the CP running there will=20 > >naturally issue a SIE to run a third-level guest. Because there's=20 > >hardware > support for only two levels of SIE, the first- > >level CP intercepts the instruction and simulates it." > > > >VM/ESA presumably has the ability to interpret all > >of the S/370 I/O and DAT instructions, in order to > >run on a real S/390. Right? >=20 > No, the CP in VM/ESA will always issue a SIE when dispatching=20 > a VM. If its nested less than two levels deep, the SIE just=20 > executes. It its more than two levels deep the assits don't=20 > work, and control is passed up to the VM that is two levels=20 > deep. It then issues the SIE on behalf of the third, fourth=20 > of fith level VM. The problem is that on older hardware SIE=20 > did allow 370/io to be simulated, on modern (64 bit capable=20 > hardware) it doesn't. >=20 I forgot, you can run zVM under zVM or ESA under ESA as deep as you want an= d it will still work. It just gets a little slower.... > >Therefore the limitation is in the hardware (in > >our case Hercules), not having the ability to > >stack more than 2 levels of SIE, right? >=20 > No see above... Sorry , I meant to say its not because there are only two levels of SIE, bu= t because the SIE on modern hardware does not support 370 mode machines. >=20 > >Just because IBM's hardware doesn't allow that, > >is there any reason why Hercules can't be made to > >do so? >=20 > As far as I know Hercules only has one level of SIE nesting,=20 > not the two that real hardware has. So VM under VM on=20 > hercules will be slowish... >=20 > >BFN. Paul. >=20 > Dave >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------------ >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------------ >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --NhLdK3jyt9hnyaDr-8rspv9IUeO0u7outK0ZMpl Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/htm= l4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <body style=3D"background-color: #fff;"> <span style=3D"display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;"> <div id=3D"ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-text" > =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p><br> > -----Original Message-----<br> > From: <a href=3D"mailto:H390-VM%40yahoogroups.com">H390-VM@yahoogroups= .com</a> <br> > [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:H390-VM%40yahoogroups.com">H390-VM@yahoogrou= ps.com</a>] On Behalf Of Dave<br> > Sent: 23 November 2010 19:13<br> > To: <a href=3D"mailto:H390-VM%40yahoogroups.com">[email protected]= om</a><br> > Subject: RE: [H390-VM] Re: DOS/VS or VM/370 under z/VM<br> > <br> > <br> > <br> > <br> > > -----Original Message-----<br> > > From: <a href=3D"mailto:H390-VM%40yahoogroups.com">H390-VM@yahoog= roups.com</a><br> > > [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:H390-VM%40yahoogroups.com">H390-VM@yaho= ogroups.com</a>] On Behalf Of kerravon86<br> > > Sent: 23 November 2010 15:35<br> > > To: <a href=3D"mailto:H390-VM%40yahoogroups.com">H390-VM@yahoogro= ups.com</a><br> > > Subject: [H390-VM] Re: DOS/VS or VM/370 under z/VM<br> > > <br> > > <br> > > --- In <a href=3D"mailto:H390-VM%40yahoogroups.com">H390-VM@yahoo= groups.com</a>, Tony Harminc <tharminc@...> wrote:<br> > > ><br> > > > On 22 November 2010 19:02, kerravon86 <kerravon86@...>= wrote:<br> > > > <br> > > > > Is it possible to run VM/370 under z/VM?<br> > > > <br> > > > In a word: no.<br> > > > <br> > > > > I know that DOS/VS runs under VM/370, so if VM/370 runs= <br> > > under z/VM,<br> > > > > then that would provide a way to run DOS/VS.<br> > > > <br> > > > There are lots of cases where the tempting notion of using s= everal<br> > > > levels of VM to support an old architecture on modern <br> > > hardware might<br> > > > apply. Virtually none of them will work.<br> > > <br> > > <a href=3D"http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/mayjune09/cover= story/25">http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/mayjune09/coverstory/25</a= ><br> > >081p2.aspx<br> > ><br> > >"The hardware handles both. But if the virtual machine is run= ning <br> > >another<br> > copy of z/VM, the CP running there will <br> > >naturally issue a SIE to run a third-level guest. Because there's = <br> > >hardware<br> > support for only two levels of SIE, the first-<br> > >level CP intercepts the instruction and simulates it."<br> > ><br> > >VM/ESA presumably has the ability to interpret all<br> > >of the S/370 I/O and DAT instructions, in order to<br> > >run on a real S/390. Right?<br> > <br> > No, the CP in VM/ESA will always issue a SIE when dispatching <br> > a VM. If its nested less than two levels deep, the SIE just <br> > executes. It its more than two levels deep the assits don't <br> > work, and control is passed up to the VM that is two levels <br> > deep. It then issues the SIE on behalf of the third, fourth <br> > of fith level VM. The problem is that on older hardware SIE <br> > did allow 370/io to be simulated, on modern (64 bit capable <br> > hardware) it doesn't.<br> > <br> <br> I forgot, you can run zVM under zVM or ESA under ESA as deep as you want an= d<br> it will still work. It just gets a little slower....<br> <br> > >Therefore the limitation is in the hardware (in<br> > >our case Hercules), not having the ability to<br> > >stack more than 2 levels of SIE, right?<br> > <br> > No see above...<br> <br> Sorry , I meant to say its not because there are only two levels of SIE, bu= t<br> because the SIE on modern hardware does not support 370 mode machines.<br> <br> > <br> > >Just because IBM's hardware doesn't allow that,<br> > >is there any reason why Hercules can't be made to<br> > >do so?<br> > <br> > As far as I know Hercules only has one level of SIE nesting, <br> > not the two that real hardware has. So VM under VM on <br> > hercules will be slowish...<br> > <br> > >BFN. Paul.<br> > <br> > Dave<br> > <br> > <br> > ------------------------------------<br> > <br> > Yahoo! Groups Links<br> > <br> > <br> > <br> > <br> > <br> > <br> > ------------------------------------<br> > <br> > Yahoo! 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