Re: Places across Hierarchy boundaries

Hi Florian,

when I started using GRAMPS I also had a tough time figuring out how to set
up the place structure.

In the end I came to the conclusion to keep it as simple as possible. You
are not setting up a place database, but rather using these places for your
genealogy.
What counts is the correct display for each event and person at a specific
time.

I assume that your lowest level place would be the suburb, e.g. Zehlendorf
or Lichtenberg.
Two scenarios

a) your ancestors lived only in one part of the city (west or east):
Why not just change the name for the period 1949 (or 1945) to 1990?
So you have one place with the names
Berlin - before 1945
Berlin - (amerikanischer Sektor) - 1945-1949
Berlin (West) - 1949-1990
Berlin - after 1990
You then just connect Zehlendorf or whatever suburb to this one place, and
Berlin to Preußen, Federal Rep. Germany etc.

b) you have events in both parts of the city:
Do as mentioned before for one part,
and for the time period 1945 to 1990 create a second place
Berlin (sowjetischer Sektor) 1945-1949
Berlin (Ost) 1949-1990
Then connect Lichtenberg (etc) to the Berlin above (west) for the time until
1945 and then again from 1990, and to Berlin (Ost) for 1945 to 1990.
This Berlin (Ost) would then be connected to DDR for 1949 to 1990. No need
to define anything for this place before the war or after Reunification, as
your suburb would be connected to the other place for those periods.

It may seem a bit strange to do it this way, but the results (for all
events) are correct.

Regards
Michael



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
From: Florian Teply
Sent: Friday, February 4, 2022 10:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Gramps-users] Places across Hierarchy boundaries

Hi there,

currently I'm trying to wrap my head around how places are handled in
gramps.
We all know that in history places of all sizes were moved not
physically but politically between bigger places. That is, City A might
have belonged to Country Z until Year Y, and to country G after that
time. But now I have faced a situation, where it's not too clear to me
how to handle: I discovered ancestors which lived in Berlin, Germany.

I do suspect that there might not be a definitive answer here as it
becomes somewhat philosophical, but consider this:
As you probably know, Berlin existed as a single entity before the end
of WW II. Afterwards, parts of it belonged to the German Democratic
Republic, while other parts belonged to the Federal Republic of Germany
(or strictly speaking did not belong to it legally, even though most
laws were enacted to be valid in the Federal Republic of Germany and
Berlin (West)), and since 1990 all these parts belong to one legal
entity. Question is: how would you model this in gramps?
Personally I feel, even though the city was split between countries, it
is still one city and should as such be one place. But can a place
belong to two mutually exclusive entities at the same time? For the
individual suburbs which make up Berlin as a whole the situation is
clear, as they belonged to either this or that part, but not both
simultaneously.
This could be solved using two places of the same name. On the other
hand, having two places Berlin, Germany seems to lead to confusion down
the road in cases where it is not entirely clear which one is applicable.

What would you do?

Best regards,
Florian


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