Re: Places across Hierarchy boundaries

Hi Michael,

I actually went with version a) you mentioned below until now as it
fitted the events I had. It's just that recently events in the other
part of the city turned up, which made me wonder how things are supposed
to work as the mapping I had didn't correctly cover reality anymore. But
I believe now this is mostly a mental block. As I'm increasing the level
of detail in places - and that can go way beyond just the suburb, in a
few cases I can reliably distinguish at appartment level in the same
building - It will dissolve itself as you mention in variant b). And the
more I think about it, the more straightforward it seems.

Thanks for getting me on the right track!

Regards,
Florian

On 05.02.22 00:45, Michael Stockhausen wrote:
> Hi Florian,
>
> when I started using GRAMPS I also had a tough time figuring out how to set
> up the place structure.
>
> In the end I came to the conclusion to keep it as simple as possible. You
> are not setting up a place database, but rather using these places for your
> genealogy.
> What counts is the correct display for each event and person at a specific
> time.
>
> I assume that your lowest level place would be the suburb, e.g. Zehlendorf
> or Lichtenberg.
> Two scenarios
>
> a) your ancestors lived only in one part of the city (west or east):
> Why not just change the name for the period 1949 (or 1945) to 1990?
> So you have one place with the names
> Berlin - before 1945
> Berlin - (amerikanischer Sektor) - 1945-1949
> Berlin (West) - 1949-1990
> Berlin - after 1990
> You then just connect Zehlendorf or whatever suburb to this one place, and
> Berlin to Preußen, Federal Rep. Germany etc.
>
> b) you have events in both parts of the city:
> Do as mentioned before for one part,
> and for the time period 1945 to 1990 create a second place
> Berlin (sowjetischer Sektor) 1945-1949
> Berlin (Ost) 1949-1990
> Then connect Lichtenberg (etc) to the Berlin above (west) for the time
> until
> 1945 and then again from 1990, and to Berlin (Ost) for 1945 to 1990.
> This Berlin (Ost) would then be connected to DDR for 1949 to 1990. No need
> to define anything for this place before the war or after Reunification, as
> your suburb would be connected to the other place for those periods.
>
> It may seem a bit strange to do it this way, but the results (for all
> events) are correct.
>
> Regards
> Michael
>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> From: Florian Teply
> Sent: Friday, February 4, 2022 10:40 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Gramps-users] Places across Hierarchy boundaries
>
> Hi there,
>
> currently I'm trying to wrap my head around how places are handled in
> gramps.
> We all know that in history places of all sizes were moved not
> physically but politically between bigger places. That is, City A might
> have belonged to Country Z until Year Y, and to country G after that
> time. But now I have faced a situation, where it's not too clear to me
> how to handle: I discovered ancestors which lived in Berlin, Germany.
>
> I do suspect that there might not be a definitive answer here as it
> becomes somewhat philosophical, but consider this:
> As you probably know, Berlin existed as a single entity before the end
> of WW II. Afterwards, parts of it belonged to the German Democratic
> Republic, while other parts belonged to the Federal Republic of Germany
> (or strictly speaking did not belong to it legally, even though most
> laws were enacted to be valid in the Federal Republic of Germany and
> Berlin (West)), and since 1990 all these parts belong to one legal
> entity. Question is: how would you model this in gramps?
> Personally I feel, even though the city was split between countries, it
> is still one city and should as such be one place. But can a place
> belong to two mutually exclusive entities at the same time? For the
> individual suburbs which make up Berlin as a whole the situation is
> clear, as they belonged to either this or that part, but not both
> simultaneously.
> This could be solved using two places of the same name. On the other
> hand, having two places Berlin, Germany seems to lead to confusion down
> the road in cases where it is not entirely clear which one is applicable.
>
> What would you do?
>
> Best regards,
> Florian
>
>
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