Using Breve, Digital Space, Framsticks et al

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Howdy Gerald,

If you are starting from scratch from the low-level end, it might be =20
an ideal time to experiment with the environment and graphics engines =20=

that are always looking for projects such as DaH.

Have you considered using Breve or Digital Space for the graphics and =20=

environment? I think Framsticks might also enable you to create the =20
body properties and the physics and leave the rest to their =20
environment engine.

I know Bruce is dying for an artificial life simulator in Digital =20
Space. It might be a good investigation/implementation project. It =20
might also instigate a native Mac version of Digital Space. Breve is =20
already multi-platform.

Best regards,

Tom Barbalet.

On Sep 23, 2007, at 1:32 PM, Gerald de Jong wrote:

> hi Sven!
>
> it's great to get some feedback about what i'm doing because it really
> motivates me to continue.  i'm really starting to have fun with this
> from-scratch project because it's teaching me about what tensegrity
> is.
>
> your first issue is with how the collision with the floor is handled,
> and i think you're probably right.  thanks for bringing it up.  i
> suppose the push must happen in the direction of the bar that is being
> lifted above the floor.  feel free to make a suggestion about how it
> should be handled.  i'm sure i can proceed with lots of other things
> and then eventually come back and get this thing just right, if we can
> work out a sufficiently authentic way.
>
> the slack issue is certainly an interesting one, but i think i'm on
> the right track by having the notion of an "ideal cable" be that of
> something completely elastic.  i could be wrong (and i will definitely
> find out if that's the case) but i think that tensegrity can be built
> on the basis of these always-pull elastic cables.
>
> if you think it's really important to explore systems that can contain
> slack it will be possible to make it work either way, in a pluggable
> fashion.
>
> On 9/23/07, Sven Heinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I am a little  bit confused regarding your handling of gravity you =20=

>> said, if one end is below ground both ends are pushed, but would =20
>> that not cancel out rotational movement preventing the bars from =20
>> tipping over?
>>
>> And about slack, as the appearance of slack is one of the major =20
>> signs that a construct fails tensigrity I think constructs with =20
>> cables that approach  zero length should be elimated from the =20
>> evolution process.
>> --
>> Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh=F6rt?
>> Der kanns mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------=20=

>> ----
>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
>> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Fluidiom-code mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fluidiom-code
>>
>
>
> --=20
> Gerald de Jong
> [email protected]
> http://www.groovyactors.org
> http://www.darwinathome.org
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=20=

> ---
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Fluidiom-code mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fluidiom-code

  --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- =20=

--- --- ---
Noble Ape http://nobleape.com/sim/    Ape Reality  http://=20
nobleape.com/reality/
Community http://biota.org/podcast/   Tom Barbalet http://=20
nobleape.com/tom/




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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Howdy Gerald,<DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>If you are starting from =
scratch from the low-level end, it might be an ideal time to experiment =
with the environment and graphics engines that are always looking for =
projects such as DaH.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Have you considered using =
Breve or Digital Space for the graphics and environment? I think =
Framsticks might also enable you to create the body properties and the =
physics and leave the rest to their environment engine.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I know Bruce is dying for =
an artificial life simulator in Digital Space. It might be a good =
investigation/implementation project. It might also instigate a native =
Mac version of Digital Space. Breve is already =
multi-platform.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Best regards,</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Tom =
Barbalet.</DIV><DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Sep 23, 2007, at 1:32 PM, Gerald de =
Jong wrote:</DIV><BR class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">hi Sven!</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">it's =
great to get some feedback about what i'm doing because it =
really</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">motivates me to continue.<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>i'm really starting to have =
fun with this</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">from-scratch project because =
it's teaching me about what tensegrity</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">is.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">your first issue is with how the collision with the =
floor is handled,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and i think you're probably =
right.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>thanks for =
bringing it up.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</SPAN>i</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">suppose the push must happen in =
the direction of the bar that is being</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">lifted =
above the floor.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>feel =
free to make a suggestion about how it</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">should =
be handled.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>i'm sure i =
can proceed with lots of other things</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and then =
eventually come back and get this thing just right, if we can</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">work out a sufficiently authentic way.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the =
slack issue is certainly an interesting one, but i think i'm =
on</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the right track by having the notion of an =
"ideal cable" be that of</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">something =
completely elastic.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>i =
could be wrong (and i will definitely</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">find out =
if that's the case) but i think that tensegrity can be built</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">on the basis of these always-pull elastic =
cables.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">if you think it's really important to explore =
systems that can contain</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">slack it will =
be possible to make it work either way, in a pluggable</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">fashion.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On 9/23/07, Sven Heinz &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>&gt; wrote:</DIV> =
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I am a little<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>bit confused regarding your =
handling of gravity you said, if one end is below ground both ends are =
pushed, but would that not cancel out rotational movement preventing the =
bars from tipping over?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">And about slack, as the =
appearance of slack is one of the major signs that a construct fails =
tensigrity I think constructs with cables that approach<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>zero length should be =
elimated from the evolution process.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger =
geh=F6rt?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Der kanns mit allen: <A =
href=3D"http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger">http://www.gmx.net/de/go/=
multimessenger</A></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; ">This SF.net email is sponsored by: =
Microsoft</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Defy all challenges. =
Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/">http://cl=
k.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/</A></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; =
">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Fluidiom-code mailing list</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]=
urceforge.net</A></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fluidiom-code">https:=
//lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fluidiom-code</A></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Gerald =
de Jong</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A></DIV><DI=
V style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"http://www.groovyactors.org">http://www.groovyactors.org</A></DIV>=
<DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"http://www.darwinathome.org">http://www.darwinathome.org</A></DIV>=
<DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; ">This SF.net email is sponsored by: =
Microsoft</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Defy all challenges. =
Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/">http://cl=
k.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/</A></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; =
">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Fluidiom-code mailing list</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]=
urceforge.net</A></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fluidiom-code">https:=
//lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fluidiom-code</A></DIV> =
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class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
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style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN =
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class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN =
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class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">---</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">Noble =
Ape</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space"><FONT=
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Courier New; =
">=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><A =
href=3D"http://nobleape.com/sim/">http://nobleape.com/sim/</A> =A0 =
=A0</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">Ape Reality=A0 <A =
href=3D"http://nobleape.com/reality/">http://nobleape.com/reality/</A></SP=
AN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Courier New; ">Community <A =
href=3D"http://biota.org/podcast/">http://biota.org/podcast/</A>=A0 =
=A0</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: =
Courier New; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: =
Courier New; ">Tom Barbalet <A =
href=3D"http://nobleape.com/tom/">http://nobleape.com/tom/</A>=A0</SPAN></=
SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></S=
PAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>=

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