Re: Inkscape can be extremely frustrating

It is not necessary to make invisible shapes to use text on path. In fact
it's not a good idea to do that because then the user can not easily select
the shape for rotation. Though I think there is quite a bit wrong with the
text on path implementation in the first place.

The solution should not require new users to learn/deal with a bad workflow
just to prevent a single problem.

A better solution is to revert to a default value only if there is no
stroke or fill specified. This is because it is always an error to draw
invisible shapes. It's arguable whether it's a good idea to hide shapes by
giving them no fill and no stroke, after they are drawn, but it is *always*
an error to draw a new shape with no fill and stroke.



On Sun, 2 Sep 2018, 01:07 brynn, <[email protected]> wrote:

> Invisible shapes are occassionally needed.  For example, text on path.
> Another
> example, custom stripe pattern.
>
> However, the problem is new users.  They find that they can make invisible
> objects, so they do.  Then they forget that they did.  Then they can't
> draw
> anything anymore.
>
> I still like Patrick's suggestion in the bug report
> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1704777)  It helps in only a
> certain
> situation, and does not impair accidentally in other situations.
>
> All best,
> brynn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C R
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 5:03 PM
> To: Inkscape User Community
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-user] Inkscape can be extremely frustrating
>
>
> Or don't use invisible objects. I think thats still the better solution.
> They
> are not needed for anything, and having to sort through potentially
> thousands of
> objects to find the invisible ones, is so so very not worth it. :)
>
> PS- easier way to see invisible objects is View > Display Mode > Outline
> imho, this is also so very not worth it.
>
> Don't use invisible shapes, people. It's bad, mkay? ;)
> -C
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 11:39 PM Victor Westmann <
> [email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> To see whatever object you have on Inkscape canvas, doesn't matter if
> invisible
> or not, just go to "Object" > "Objects...".
> All of the objects will be there.
>
> I was the one that requested this feature way and was REALLY glad this was
> implemented! Extremely handy feature.
>
> Just like the Blender panel with all of the objects present in the Blender
> viewports.
>
> ;-)
>
>
>
>
> --Victor Westmann
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 3:17 PM, Maren Hachmann <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> Am 30.08.2018 um 23:01 schrieb C R:
>
> >     It can't ever catch all the cases, though. Layers? Groups? Too much
> >     blur? A clip or mask? Other objects above in a different layer? There
> >     are so many of those that cause drawing invisible objects, and
> Inkscape
> >     doesn't help with determining the cause (btw. opacity at 0 is the
> most
> >     frequent cause, esp. as there is a bug about the opacity indicator
> field
> >     in the current stable version, after that comes 'fill alpha at 0'.
> 'no
> >     stroke, no fill' is a lot rarer, in my experience).
> >
> >
> > I'm sure we can catch some or most of these. I still maintain it's an
> > error to draw a shape with no fill and no stroke, regardless of the
> > reason ... with the possible exception of masking or clipping. I don't
> > see how groups would be a problem unless the group were set to 0%
> > opacity...
>
> - Happens, unfortunately. And people don't notice they are in one when
> they try to draw something.
>
> > another thing whic is inadvisable for all the same reasons.
> > :) Regardless, if the user hits escape twice, it exits out of any groups
> > etc. We should make sure that at least in this condition, where nothing
> > else is interfering, the user is able to draw visible shapes effectively
> > without having to tweak anything to see what they are drawing. :)
> >
> >
> >
> >     - It might be inadvisable, but it's quick and a way that is currently
> >     available to change the line width of a line drawing (like a simple
> >     cartoon). I wasn't talking about gradients, and also not about shape
> >     properties.
> >
> >
> > A better method is to enter the group, select all, and adjust the
> > line-width there. Being able to set the stroke, but not stroke gradient,
> > or fill but not fill gradient on a group is inconsistent behaviour and
> > needs to be fixed one way or the other - either the group is treated
> > like selecting all its contents, or the group needs to be treated like a
> > separate shape. Right now its both, and is confusing and inconsistent UX.
>
> - I can set the fill and stroke gradient for a group just fine (in both
> master and 0.92.x), what are the cases in which this doesn't work?
>
> Your suggested change can make some actions take a lot longer, because
> one needs to select only objects that have a stroke in a group, to
> change their stroke width.
>
> >
> >
> >     I just don't expect Inkscape to add a stroke when I change the line
> >     width - I understand that it might help new users, but it's also
> >     illogical.
> >
> >
> > Currently, if the user adjusts the line width and there's no stroke, the
> > value is thrown away entirely. That's absolutely apalling UX. :)
>
> - It doesn't do that for me in 0.92.x, which I routinely use. But the
> behavior is new in master - and I just noticed someone removed the
> stroke width indicator in the lower left corner! Why was that removed? I
> use it so often for quick adjustments.
>
> I think these are bugs. This can't be intentional...
>
> Maren
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
> http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user
> <http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________Inkscape-user>
> mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Inkscape-user mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot

_______________________________________________
Inkscape-user mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user