Re: Re: Shadow Alterntive - Redux.

On Sat, 9 Jan 2010, Ray McDowell wrote:

# I know this is way out there, and I know there is probably no way to 
# do  it, but I have come to love the concept of SPAs. TiddlyWiki and 
# Wiki On A Stick being the two most prominant examples.  I've gone with 
# Wiki on a Stick (and it's off-shoot Book on a Stick). They are flexible, 
# compatible across OS's as long as they run Firefox, IE or Opera, and fun 
# to play with. If somehow Shadow could be transmorgified to to a browser 
# based SPA I would be in Outliner and SPA heaven. Not likely, I know. 

	Well, that has always been one of the options; ie: a web app 
(these are a web app that is kind enough to be able to run self contained, 
without dependancy on a server.)

	The trade is always..

	- web app (depends on data plan usually)
	- desktop app (laptop/whatever) - reliable, but means you need to 
carry the machine with you when you want to use it
	- a combination (Desktop+web app, or something like self contained 
web app) -- use a desktop fat client, but a light web client when the 
desktop not around. This is of course, double the work, since you maintain 
a big complex or duplicated codebase
	- or a handheld app -- this is platform specific, and theres like 
6 handheld platforms vieing for control right now, so its a mess.

	What to do..

	As 'web apps' become more and more viable (and perhaps the target 
userbase in question is more or less viable?), that feels like the 
sensible way to go from a dev perspective (cross platform is easier on one 
hand, pain on another, but  certainly less work than building cross 
platform for desktop and handhelds) but a pita for the user (a dedicated 
client on your desktop or handheld is always faster and usually offers a 
more friendly environment for the user, than a genericy online client.) 
Still, theres a lot going for it.

	But if I made a web app, I keep fealing like I'm backing down on a 
piece I've always stood for -- solid simple and reliable, even when the 
net isn't there. Wouldn't you hate to have your data plan working away, 
storing all your data on (say) my server or your own serve if you'd set 
one up, and then you need info while in the suibway and *bam*, nothing? 

	(Not to mention that vast pile of people who do not have data pln, 
or its very expensive, or spotty service in work or home, etc.)

	*grumble* 

	If only it were easy :)

		jeff

# 
# 
# 
# ________________________________
# From: Jeff Mitchell <[email protected]>
# To: [email protected]
# Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 3:17:49 AM
# Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow Alterntive - Redux.
# 
#   
# 
# The pain! It burns!
# 
# I dunno man; iphone is doing well, but the general feeling is that 
# Android will slowly overtake it .. the trick is Apple has a lot of 
# momentum. If Apple can keep it up, they could well 'win', but if they 
# falter just a touch, Android will steam over it. Apple are right-PITA's, 
# but they do make some pretty good stuff and I'm carrying an iphone 3GS 
# these days. I really realyl like the Nokia N900 in a lot of ways, but I 
# don't envision its where things are going. Android has some to like, and 
# some to dislike (a lot on both counts really), but it might be where 
# things are heading. (One of the reasons is because carrier can still build 
# their own distributions, and they like that, so they want ot push Android; 
# thats actually a very bad thing for developers and users.. the samr 
# problem plagued Palm .. remember how Tapwave and Handspring and Palm and 
# AlphaSmart and Sony all had slightly different and incompatible extensions 
# to the common base, it made development absolute hell? Android isn't 
# there, but it _could_ go there..)
# 
# So I dunno, I can't really recommend, or say where I'm preferring. 
# 
# I'll restate what a lot of us say -- mobile dev has only gotten 
# worse, and only nastier, over the years ;)
# 
# This is partially why I'm working with some guys on an all new 
# device, but its not really for most people .. but its going to be fun for 
# people like me :) - see http://www.open-pandora.org/
# 
# I really like my iphone from a user perspective; from a dev 
# perspective I'm half a fan an half full of rage (Apple are bastards.)
# 
# I'm not really a fan of Android right now, but I might start 
# watching it more seriously.
# 
# WebOS is currently not doing super well in statistics (but since 
# when did I ever care ;); so far, I've stonewalled it since 1) it was late 
# to Canada so I couldn't evne get one till long after most people, 2) it's 
# so far been purely a javascript+css scene, which is a very hard sell to us 
# serious app devs and us performance minded devs, and 3) they've not been 
# really reaching out to devs as much sa they used to; ack for old Palm we 
# used to get a lot of help, but now its a whole new Palm. Still, they've 
# finally started mentioning official native code support, so real apps and 
# performance apps start becoming interesting again. So we'll see how the 
# devices go.
# 
# In a way, Palm OS was good because it was so ugly and hard to do 
# real work for, that only us hardcore folks would do it, and the big guys 
# like IBM and EA and so on stayed out; now mobiles are big news, and the 
# big guys are in. In a way, the harder slightly niche-platform is a good 
# poaching ground for people like me -- so in a way webOS might be a good 
# place -- takes skill, has a decent size but not large enough market to 
# bring in me fighting head to head with big guys. 
# 
# But thats down the road .. 'right now' it feels like Android is a 
# better targe tin some ways (but also has a very small market.) iphone is 
# king right now. But in another year we'll have a better idea .. many many 
# Android phones are coming out (and good ones, not like the initial few), 
# and webOS is getting more serious. (just like iphone did.. iphone first 
# year stunk, if you recall, for developers.)
# 
# So in 6mo or a year I'll have a better idea of things are 
# _actually_ shaling out a little.. 
# 
# .. but for now, I can't recommend; I'm as confused as the rest of 
# you :)
# 
# jeff
# 
# I won't go RIM; in its current and past state, its a nightmare. 
# That could change, but its not changing anytime soon ;)
# 
# 
# On Sun, 20 Dec 2009, S.L. wrote:
# 
# # I hadn't felt the need to join this board before, but I was thinking the other day, that one of the things that is stopping me from changing over to a different handheld device is that I will lose Shadow Plan.
# # 
# # It's really the best application I have installed on my handheld.
# # 
# # Jeff, honestly, if you chose to go in a particular direction with Shadow, I would suddenly become much more favorably inclined towards that device. You like Android? Suddenly I like Android a lot more. You like Palm Pre? Then I would like that a lot more.
# # 
# # Uh, unless you went with Windows Mobile, in which case I admit I might not follow. But I think bloated Windows Mobile is sort of the opposite of lean and mean Shadow anyway.
# # 
# # I have tried Evernote, by the by, and in my opinion it can't hold a candle to Shadow.
# # 
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# # Yahoo! Groups Links
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# 
# --
# If everyone would put barbecue sauce on their food, there would be no war.
# 
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# Yahoo! Groups Links
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--
If everyone would put barbecue sauce on their food, there would be no war.

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