Re: Re: Dvorak for Brits?

Kim Bastin <[email protected]> Sat, 27 Aug 2011 17:25:22 +1000
Newsgroups gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards
Message-ID <[email protected]>
--T3BFk9b8dPi9GFLt108OajNQhaQiJW0CovNXsPv
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Agreed the UI is a bit clunky, but OP just wanted three extra
characters. Not that much work even with KLC.

Having used it a lot, I generally use a text editor to edit an existing=20
.klc file and just run KLC to generate the layout file.

On 27/08/2011 04:42, marzolian wrote:
> I once customized my keyboard using the KLC. It will produce the best
> results and it's greater for tinkerers, HOWEVER it will take you some
> time to install and learn to use, and even then it's clumsy.
>
> My impression of the process was: it's as if you wanted to change the
> buttons on your car radio and you had to remove the transmission to
> do so.
>
> Steven
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Kim Bastin<kimb@...>  wrote:
>>
>> At http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665 you will find
>> the Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator, with which you can create
>> your own layout. The layouts it creates are `genuine' Windows
>> layouts which require no special software to run once installed.
>>
>> Kim Bastin
>>
>> On 23/08/2011 06:00, Craig Richmond wrote:
>>> I live in the UK but grew up with Australian keyboard layouts and
>>> do exactly as you suggest and just use those characters.
>>>
>>> At work I end up using insert character a lot because I have a
>>> Kinesis keyboard and the ALT-number-number-number shortcuts
>>> aren't practical to use on it.  Failing, that it might be time to
>>> figure out how to create a keyboard code page yourself or work
>>> around the problem by installing some kind of utility to help you
>>> type the characters you're looking for easier.
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>> On 22 Aug 2011, at 20:20, Marcus Brooks wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey guys, how do British PC users generate the ~ and =A3 keys? I
>>>> heard from a Brit who says his =A3 key is mapped wrong in
>>>> Windows Dvorak, and ~ is missing. Is there a fix?
>>>>
>>>> FYI: In Mac OS X 10.6 US Dvorak, the tilde key is Shift-` (next
>>>> to the 1 key), or Opt-n for the combiner, and =A3 is Option-3.
>>>> -- marcus@... http://area42.mwbrooks.com chat (A/Y/G):
>>>> mwbrooks42
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> To Post a message, send it to:   altkeyboards@... To
>>>> Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>>>> altkeyboards-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> To Post a message, send it to:   altkeyboards@... To Unsubscribe,
>>> send a blank message to: altkeyboards-unsubscribe@...! Groups
>>> Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   [email protected] To
> Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> [email protected]! Groups Links
>
>
>


--T3BFk9b8dPi9GFLt108OajNQhaQiJW0CovNXsPv
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable




<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/htm=
l4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
</head>







<body style=3D"background-color: #fff;">
<span style=3D"display:none">&nbsp;</span>

<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;">
  <div id=3D"ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->

    <div id=3D"ygrp-text" >
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
      <p>Agreed the UI is a bit clunky, but OP just wanted three extra<br>
characters. Not that much work even with KLC.<br>
<br>
Having used it a lot, I generally use a text editor to edit an existing <br=
>
.klc file and just run KLC to generate the layout file.<br>
<br>
On 27/08/2011 04:42, marzolian wrote:<br>
&gt; I once customized my keyboard using the KLC. It will produce the best<=
br>
&gt; results and it's greater for tinkerers, HOWEVER it will take you some<=
br>
&gt; time to install and learn to use, and even then it's clumsy.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; My impression of the process was: it's as if you wanted to change the<=
br>
&gt; buttons on your car radio and you had to remove the transmission to<br=
>
&gt; do so.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Steven<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --- In <a href=3D"mailto:altkeyboards%40yahoogroups.com">altkeyboards@=
yahoogroups.com</a>, Kim Bastin&lt;kimb@...&gt;  wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; At <a href=3D"http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665">h=
ttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665</a> you will find<br>
&gt;&gt; the Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator, with which you can create<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; your own layout. The layouts it creates are `genuine' Windows<br>
&gt;&gt; layouts which require no special software to run once installed.<b=
r>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Kim Bastin<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 23/08/2011 06:00, Craig Richmond wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; I live in the UK but grew up with Australian keyboard layouts =
and<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; do exactly as you suggest and just use those characters.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; At work I end up using insert character a lot because I have a=
<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Kinesis keyboard and the ALT-number-number-number shortcuts<br=
>
&gt;&gt;&gt; aren't practical to use on it.  Failing, that it might be time=
 to<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; figure out how to create a keyboard code page yourself or work=
<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; around the problem by installing some kind of utility to help =
you<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; type the characters you're looking for easier.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Craig<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On 22 Aug 2011, at 20:20, Marcus Brooks wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hey guys, how do British PC users generate the ~ and =A3 k=
eys? I<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; heard from a Brit who says his =A3 key is mapped wrong in<=
br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Windows Dvorak, and ~ is missing. Is there a fix?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; FYI: In Mac OS X 10.6 US Dvorak, the tilde key is Shift-` =
(next<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to the 1 key), or Opt-n for the combiner, and =A3 is Optio=
n-3.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -- marcus@... <a href=3D"http://area42.mwbrooks.com">http:=
//area42.mwbrooks.com</a> chat (A/Y/G):<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mwbrooks42<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ------------------------------------<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To Post a message, send it to:   altkeyboards@... To<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; altkeyboards-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; ------------------------------------<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; To Post a message, send it to:   altkeyboards@... To Unsubscri=
be,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; send a blank message to: altkeyboards-unsubscribe@...! Groups<=
br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Links<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ------------------------------------<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; To Post a message, send it to:   <a href=3D"mailto:altkeyboards%40eGro=
ups.com">[email protected]</a> To<br>
&gt; Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:altkeyboards-unsubscribe%40eGroups.comYahoo">altkeyb=
[email protected]</a>! Groups Links<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</p>

    </div>
=20=20=20=20=20

    <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
    <div style=3D"color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div>

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20
=20=20=20
    <div id=3D"ygrp-actbar" style=3D"clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; whit=
e-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;">
      <div>
        <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRe%3A%20%5Baltkeyboa=
rds%5D%20Re%3A%20Dvorak%20for%20Brits%3F" style=3D"margin-right: 0; padding=
-right: 0;">
	  Reply to <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">sender</span></a> |
        <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRe%3A%20%5=
Baltkeyboards%5D%20Re%3A%20Dvorak%20for%20Brits%3F">
	  Reply to <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">group</span></a> |
        	  <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards/post;_ylc=
=3DX3oDMTJwazlzMWlxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1Nzk5ODIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjA4=
NTY0BG1zZ0lkAzM4ODEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzE0NDMwMDIy?act=3Drepl=
y&messageNum=3D3881">Reply <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">via web post</=
span></a> |
            	<a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards/post;_yl=
c=3DX3oDMTJlanV0ZnF2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1Nzk5ODIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjA=
4NTY0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNDQzMDAyMg--" style=3D"font-weight=
: 700;">Start a New Topic</a>
      </div>

                <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards/messa=
ge/3873;_ylc=3DX3oDMTM0NzVwN2FvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1Nzk5ODIEZ3Jwc3BJ=
ZAMxNzA3MjA4NTY0BG1zZ0lkAzM4ODEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzE0NDMwMDI=
yBHRwY0lkAzM4NzM-">Messages in this topic</a>
          (<span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">7</span>)
          </div>=20
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id=3D"ygrp-vital" style=3D"background-color: #e0ecee; font-family: Ver=
dana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;">
      <span id=3D"vithd" style=3D"font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-tran=
sform: uppercase; ">Recent Activity:</span>

    <ul style=3D"list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inl=
ine;">
            <li style=3D"border-right: 1px solid #000; font-weight: 700; di=
splay: inline; padding: 0 5px; margin-left: 0;">
      <span class=3D"cat"><a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeybo=
ards/members;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJmNW4wZGlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1Nzk5ODIEZ3J=
wc3BJZAMxNzA3MjA4NTY0BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMTQ0MzAwMjI-?o=3D6=
" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">New Members</a></span>
      <span class=3D"ct" style=3D"color: #ff7900;">1</span>
    </li>
                                              </ul>
=20=20=20=20
  <div style=3D"clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: #1e66ae;">
    <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJlNn=
M2NXBvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1Nzk5ODIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjA4NTY0BHNlYwN2d=
GwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMxNDQzMDAyMg--" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">V=
isit Your Group</a>
  </div>
</div>

      <div id=3D"ygrp-grfd" style=3D"font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px;=
 padding: 15px 0;">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

      To Post a message, send it to:&nbsp;&nbsp; [email protected]<B=
R>
To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: [email protected]=
om=20=20=20=20=20=20
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->

    </div>
=20=20
<div id=3D"ft" style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5p=
x; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;">
  <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJkMjVzMWRpBF9TAzk3MzU5Nz=
E0BGdycElkAzE1Nzk5ODIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3MjA4NTY0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZ=
QMxMzE0NDMwMDIy" style=3D"float: left;"><img src=3D"http://l.yimg.com/a/i/u=
s/yg/logo/us.gif" height=3D"15" width=3D"137" alt=3D"Yahoo! Groups" style=
=3D"border: 0;"/></a>
  <div style=3D"color: #747575; float: right;">Switch to: <a href=3D"mailto=
:[email protected]?subject=3DChange Delivery Format:=
 Traditional" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">Text-Only</a>, <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email protected]?subject=3DEmail Delivery: Digest" =
class=3D"margin-rt" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">Daily Digest</a> &bull=
; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DUnsu=
bscribe" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">Unsubscribe</a> &bull; <a href=3D=
"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">Terms =
of Use</a></div>
</div>

<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->

  </div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->

  <!-- Sponsor -->
  <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
  <div id=3D"ygrp-sponsor" style=3D"width:160px; float:right; clear:none; m=
argin:0 0 25px 0; background: #fff;">

<!-- Start Recommendations -->
<div id=3D"ygrp-reco">
     </div>
<!-- End Recommendations -->



  </div>   <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->

  <div style=3D"clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div>

  <img src=3D"http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=3D97359714/grpId=3D1579982/grpspI=
d=3D1707208564/msgId=3D3881/stime=3D1314430022" width=3D"1" height=3D"1"> <=
br>

<div style=3D"color: #fff; height: 0;">__,_._,___</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->

</body>

<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
  <style type=3D"text/css">
  <!--
  #ygrp-mkp {
  border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
  font-family: Arial;
  margin: 10px 0;
  padding: 0 10px;
}

#ygrp-mkp hr {
  border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}

#ygrp-mkp #hd {
  color: #628c2a;
  font-size: 85%;
  font-weight: 700;
  line-height: 122%;
  margin: 10px 0;
}

#ygrp-mkp #ads {
  margin-bottom: 10px;
}

#ygrp-mkp .ad {
  padding: 0 0;
}

#ygrp-mkp .ad p {
  margin: 0;
}

#ygrp-mkp .ad a {
  color: #0000ff;
  text-decoration: none;
}
  #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc {
  font-family: Arial;
}

#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd {
  margin: 10px 0px;
  font-weight: 700;
  font-size: 78%;
  line-height: 122%;
}

#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad {
  margin-bottom: 10px;
  padding: 0 0;
}

  a {
    color: #1e66ae;
  }

  #actions {
    font-family: Verdana;
    font-size: 11px;
    padding: 10px 0;
  }

  #activity {
    background-color: #e0ecee;
    float: left;
    font-family: Verdana;
    font-size: 10px;
    padding: 10px;
  }

  #activity span {
    font-weight: 700;
  }

  #activity span:first-child {
    text-transform: uppercase;
  }

  #activity span a {
    color: #5085b6;
    text-decoration: none;
  }

  #activity span span {
    color: #ff7900;
  }

  #activity span .underline {
    text-decoration: underline;
  }

  .attach {
    clear: both;
    display: table;
    font-family: Arial;
    font-size: 12px;
    padding: 10px 0;
    width: 400px;
  }

  .attach div a {
    text-decoration: none;
  }

  .attach img {
    border: none;
    padding-right: 5px;
  }

  .attach label {
    display: block;
    margin-bottom: 5px;
  }

  .attach label a {
    text-decoration: none;
  }
=20=20
  blockquote {
    margin: 0 0 0 4px;
  }

  .bold {
    font-family: Arial;
    font-size: 13px;
    font-weight: 700;
  }

  .bold a {
    text-decoration: none;
  }

  dd.last p a {
    font-family: Verdana;
    font-weight: 700;
  }

  dd.last p span {
    margin-right: 10px;
    font-family: Verdana;
    font-weight: 700;
  }

  dd.last p span.yshortcuts {
    margin-right: 0;
  }

  div.attach-table div div a {
    text-decoration: none;
  }

  div.attach-table {
    width: 400px;
  }

  div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.fi=
le-title a:visited {
    text-decoration: none;
  }

  div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div=
.photo-title a:visited {
    text-decoration: none;
  }

  div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {
    font-family: Verdana;
    font-size: 10px;
    font-weight: normal;
  }

  .green {
    color: #628c2a;
  }

  .MsoNormal {
    margin: 0 0 0 0;
  }

  o {
    font-size: 0;
  }

  #photos div {
    float: left;
    width: 72px;
  }

  #photos div div {
    border: 1px solid #666666;
    height: 62px;
    overflow: hidden;
    width: 62px;
  }

  #photos div label {
    color: #666666;
    font-size: 10px;
    overflow: hidden;
    text-align: center;
    white-space: nowrap;
    width: 64px;
  }

  #reco-category {
    font-size: 77%;
  }

  #reco-desc {
    font-size: 77%;
  }

  .replbq {
    margin: 4px;
  }

  #ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
   /* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/
    margin-right: 2px;
    padding-right: 5px;
  }

  #ygrp-mlmsg {
    font-size: 13px;
    font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;
    *font-size: small;
    *font: x-small;
  }

  #ygrp-mlmsg table {
    font-size: inherit;
    font: 100%;
  }

  #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {
    font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;
  }

  #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {
    font:115% monospace;
    *font-size:100%;
  }

  #ygrp-mlmsg * {
    line-height: 1.22em;
  }

  #ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
    padding-bottom: 10px;
  }

  #ygrp-mlmsg a {
    color: #1E66AE;
  }

  #ygrp-msg p a {
    font-family: Verdana;
  }

  #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
    color: #1E66AE;
    font-weight: 700;
  }

  #ygrp-reco #reco-head {
    color: #ff7900;
    font-weight: 700;
  }

  #ygrp-reco {
    margin-bottom: 20px;
    padding: 0px;
  }

  #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
    font-size: 130%;
    text-decoration: none;
  }

  #ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
    font-size: 77%;
    list-style-type: square;
    padding: 6px 0;
  }=20

  #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
    margin: 0;
    padding: 0 0 0 8px;
  }

  #ygrp-text {
    font-family: Georgia;
  }

  #ygrp-text p {
    margin: 0 0 1em 0;
  }

  #ygrp-text tt {
    font-size: 120%;
  }

  #ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
    border-right: none !important;=20
  }=20
  -->
  </style>
</head>

<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html>
<!-- end group email -->


--T3BFk9b8dPi9GFLt108OajNQhaQiJW0CovNXsPv--