Re: Single ended termination

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Hello,

Canlist has been decreasing during last years. There are CAN and CANopen
LinkedIn groups managed by CiA but there is neither too much activity.
Maybe people are in FB, but not all of us. Personally I like to be far away
from FB due to privacy issues and thus I still like Canlist kind simple and
working frameworks. Of course it does not make any sense if there are just
few of us active.

Best regards,

-H

Heikki Saha, CTO
  M.Sc. Automation
  Dr.Tech. Electronics
TK Engineering Oy
Hovioikeudenpuistikko 13 as 3, 65100 Vaasa
+358 (0)50 588 6894
email: [email protected]
skype: heikki.saha_tke

We are also in the 17th iCC: https://www.can-cia.org/icc


On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 5:47 PM Neubauer, Andreas <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> the list has a long history indeed, and the experienced contributors like
> you are what makes it worthwhile in the first place. I always really
> enjoyed managing the list, but I notice that the community has become
> smaller and smaller over the years (585 subscribers currently, 95% of the=
m
> have been silent for years). We had less than 20 threads last year, so I
> wonder if it still makes sense to keep the list up and running to be
> honest. The majordomo software it runs on must be shut down soon because =
it
> has long been outdated (no updates available). It=E2=80=99s possible to m=
igrate to
> a hosted list service, but is it worth the effort? It might be more
> rational to consider closing the list. What do you think?
>
>
>
> Andreas
>
> CANLIST Administration
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] <
> [email protected]> *On Behalf Of *John Dammeyer
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 11, 2021 10:06 AM
> *To:* 'CAN Mailinglist' <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* RE: [CANLIST] Single ended termination
>
>
>
> Works like a charm.  Thanks for that.
>
>
>
> I was just privately commenting to Heikki about the history of this CAN
> list and how it spawned from comp.arch.embedded  (1997) and from there Ke=
n
> Tindell formed the original group.  When Ken left Univeristy of Upsalla
> Vector kindly took it over without any advertising or prejudice.  So
> impressive in this day and age.
>
>
>
> So thanks again and to you and Vector for supporting a non-partisan open
> forum.
>
>
>
> John Dammeyer
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] [
> mailto:[email protected]
> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Neubauer, Andreas
> *Sent:* February-11-21 12:53 AM
> *To:* CAN Mailinglist ([email protected])
> *Subject:* RE: [CANLIST] Single ended termination
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> please go to https://canlist.org/ directly if you do not get redirected
> there from http://www.canlist.org/. <http://www.canlist.org/> The SSL
> certificate doesn=E2=80=99t cover the variant with =E2=80=9Cwww=E2=80=9D =
and I had missed to
> redirect this automatically. This is fixed now, but some browsers might
> have cached the previous redirect.
>
>
>
> Andreas
>
> CANLIST Administration
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] <
> [email protected]> *On Behalf Of *John Dammeyer
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 11, 2021 9:23 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* RE: [CANLIST] Single ended termination
>
>
>
> Heikki,
>
> Your message did come through as did a number of others a day after I
> first posted mine.
>
>
>
> I've also noticed and reported that the www.canlist.org  site is
> considered dangerous by several browsers.  Something about a security
> certificate.
>
>
>
> Back around 2011, TI's Steve Corrigan had retired and he and I had starte=
d
> looking into cable behaviour on CAN messages.  I'd sent him some surplus
> Thick DeviceNet cable for some experiments.  However he unfortunately
> passed before we had much of a chance to do anything with that.  Never
> really got back to it.  He really was the expert on this bus.
>
>
>
> Since then most of my CAN systems have had no more than about 10 nodes an=
d
> there are some rules broken.  Mostly on stub lengths.  It's a difficult
> battle with mechanical engineers who don't understand that 50 ohm cable i=
s
> different from 120 ohm cable.  Especially when the thin 50 ohm fits so we=
ll
> and bends so easily.
>
>
>
> This summer or fall I hope to get back into some really long CAN bus
> networks at slower bus rates.  Maybe 100kbps for garden lighting and
> security.  Such as system may not use 120 ohm cable for everything just t=
o
> do some testing.
>
>
>
> John Dammeyer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] [
> mailto:[email protected]
> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Heikki Saha
> *Sent:* February-11-21 12:08 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* [CANLIST] Single ended termination
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> Had problems getting this through, John already provided nice scope
> screenshot as an example.
>
>
>
> The purpose of the terminator is to get the end of the transmission line
> look like an infinitely long line with impedance equal to the line
> impedance (120ohm with CAN) and thus prevent reflections. Thus, single
> terminator may be installed into one end, but the another end remains
> unterminated (infinite impedance), which leads into over- and undershoots=
.
> While the communication will pass through, the transmission line is still
> broken. From practical point of view, the most significant risk is that a=
ny
> other problem more will lead into total black-out. And one shall keep in
> mind that the physical layer design has a direct effect on the bit error
> probability, which is a basis for residual error rate, which has further
> effect on the availability and safety performance of the entire system --
> it is easy to violate the system requirements with a poor CAN cabling
> design.
>
>
>
> There are some reference designs (published by Daimler) in the literature
> for centre termination but they cannot be recommended, because each of su=
ch
> networks needs to be intentionally fine tuned. In addition to the clumsy
> design, such will be a service nightmare.
>
>
>
> My recommendation is to adopt a standard cabling and connector scheme,
> where you'll find batch cables, Y- or V-branches and termination plugs,
> e.g. MiniChange, M12 or Deutsch DT04/06 series.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Heikki Saha, CTO
>   M.Sc. Automation
>   Dr.Tech. Electronics
> TK Engineering Oy
> Hovioikeudenpuistikko 13 as 3, 65100 Vaasa
> +358 (0)50 588 6894
> email: [email protected]
> skype: heikki.saha_tke
>
>
>
> We are also in the 17th iCC: https://www.can-cia.org/icc
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello,<div><br></div><div>Canlist has been decreasing=C2=
=A0during last years. There are CAN and CANopen LinkedIn groups managed by =
CiA but there is neither too much activity. Maybe people are in FB, but not=
 all of us. Personally I like to be far away from FB due to privacy issues =
and thus I still like Canlist kind simple and working frameworks. Of course=
 it does not make any sense if there are just few of us active.</div><div><=
br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><br></div><div>-H</div><div><br clear=
=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"=
gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Heikki Saha, CTO<br>
=C2=A0 M.Sc. Automation<br>
=C2=A0 Dr.Tech. Electronics<br>
TK Engineering Oy<br><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Hovioikeud=
enpuistikko 13 <span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-style:normal;font-we=
ight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transf=
orm:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,2=
55);float:none;display:inline">as 3</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51=
);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;=
text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;bac=
kground-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline">, 65100 Vaasa</sp=
an></font><br>
+358 (0)50 588 6894<br>
email: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">heikki.saha@=
tke.fi</a><br>
skype: heikki.saha_tke</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>We are also in the 17=
th iCC: <a href=3D"https://www.can-cia.org/icc" target=3D"_blank">https://w=
ww.can-cia.org/icc</a><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 5:47 PM Neubauer, =
Andreas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Andreas.Neubauer=
@vector.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-4817516215796820673WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Hi John,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">the list has a long history indeed, and the experienced contribut=
ors like you are what makes it worthwhile in the first place. I always real=
ly enjoyed managing the list, but
 I notice that the community has become smaller and smaller over the years =
(585 subscribers currently, 95% of them have been silent for years). We had=
 less than 20 threads last year, so I wonder if it still makes sense to kee=
p the list up and running to be
 honest. The majordomo software it runs on must be shut down soon because i=
t has long been outdated (no updates available). It=E2=80=99s possible to m=
igrate to a hosted list service, but is it worth the effort? It might be mo=
re rational to consider closing the list.
 What do you think?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Andreas<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">CANLIST Administration<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <a href=3D"mailto:canlist-owner@ve=
ctor-informatik.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]<=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email protected]</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Dammeyer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 11, 2021 10:06 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> &#39;CAN Mailinglist&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:canlist@canlist.=
org" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CANLIST] Single ended termination<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">Works like a charm.=C2=A0 Thanks for that.=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">I was just privately commenting to Heikki about the history =
of this CAN list and how it spawned from comp.arch.embedded=C2=A0 (1997) an=
d from there Ken Tindell formed the original group.=C2=A0
 When Ken left Univeristy of Upsalla=C2=A0 Vector kindly took it over witho=
ut any advertising or prejudice.=C2=A0 So impressive in this day and age.<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">So thanks again and to you and Vector for supporting a non-p=
artisan open forum.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">John Dammeyer<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,=
sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahom=
a,sans-serif">
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">ca=
[email protected]</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:canlist-owner@vect=
or-informatik.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:canlist-owner@vector-informatik=
.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Neubauer, Andreas<br>
<b>Sent:</b> February-11-21 12:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> CAN Mailinglist (<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CANLIST] Single ended termination<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">please go to
<a href=3D"https://canlist.org/" target=3D"_blank">https://canlist.org/</a>=
<span style=3D"color:black"> directly if you do not get redirected there fr=
om
<a href=3D"http://www.canlist.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.canlist.or=
g/.</a> The SSL certificate doesn=E2=80=99t cover the variant with =E2=80=
=9Cwww=E2=80=9D and I had missed to redirect this automatically. This is fi=
xed now, but some browsers might have cached the previous redirect.<u></u><=
u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Andreas<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">CANLIST Administration<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">ca=
[email protected]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:canlist-owner@v=
ector-informatik.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]=
</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Dammeyer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 11, 2021 9:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank=
">[email protected]</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CANLIST] Single ended termination<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">Heikki,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">Your message did come through as did a number of others a da=
y after I first posted mine.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">I&#39;ve also noticed and reported that the
</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><a href=3D"http://www.canlist.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">www.canlist.org</a> </span>
<span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0si=
te is considered dangerous by several browsers.=C2=A0 Something about a sec=
urity certificate.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">Back around 2011, TI&#39;s Steve Corrigan had retired and he=
 and I had started looking into cable behaviour on CAN messages.=C2=A0 I&#3=
9;d sent him some surplus Thick DeviceNet cable for some
 experiments.=C2=A0 However he unfortunately passed before we had much of a=
 chance to do anything with that.=C2=A0 Never really got back to it.=C2=A0 =
He really was the expert on this bus.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">Since then most of my CAN systems have had no more than abou=
t 10 nodes and there are some rules broken.=C2=A0 Mostly on stub lengths.=
=C2=A0 It&#39;s a difficult battle with mechanical engineers
 who don&#39;t understand that 50 ohm cable is different from 120 ohm cable=
.=C2=A0 Especially when the thin 50 ohm fits so well and bends so easily.=
=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">This summer or fall I hope to get back into some really long=
 CAN bus networks at slower bus rates.=C2=A0 Maybe 100kbps for garden light=
ing and security.=C2=A0 Such as system may not use 120
 ohm cable for everything just to do some testing.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">John Dammeyer<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,=
sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahom=
a,sans-serif">
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">ca=
[email protected]</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:canlist-owner@vect=
or-informatik.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:canlist-owner@vector-informatik=
.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Heikki Saha<br>
<b>Sent:</b> February-11-21 12:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank=
">[email protected]</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CANLIST] Single ended termination<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10pt">Hello,=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Had problems getting this throu=
gh, John already provided nice scope screenshot as an example.<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10pt"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10pt">The pu=
rpose of the terminator is to get the end of the transmission line look lik=
e an infinitely long line with impedance equal to the line impedance=C2=A0(=
120ohm with CAN) and thus prevent reflections.
 Thus, single terminator may be installed into one end, but the another end=
 remains unterminated (infinite impedance), which leads into over- and unde=
rshoots. While the communication will pass through, the transmission line i=
s still broken. From practical point
 of view, the most significant risk is that any other problem more will lea=
d into total black-out. And one shall keep in mind that the physical layer =
design has a direct effect on the bit error probability, which is a basis f=
or residual error rate, which has
 further effect on the availability and safety performance of the entire sy=
stem -- it is easy to violate the system requirements with a poor=C2=A0CAN =
cabling design.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10pt"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10pt">There =
are some reference designs (published by Daimler) in the literature for cen=
tre termination but they cannot be recommended, because each of such networ=
ks needs to be intentionally fine tuned.
 In addition to the clumsy design, such will be a service nightmare.<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10pt"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10pt">My rec=
ommendation is to adopt a standard cabling and connector scheme, where you&=
#39;ll find batch cables, Y- or V-branches and termination plugs, e.g. Mini=
Change, M12 or Deutsch DT04/06 series.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10pt"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10pt">Best r=
egards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10pt"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Heikki Saha, CTO<br>
=C2=A0 M.Sc. Automation<br>
=C2=A0 Dr.Tech. Electronics<br>
TK Engineering Oy<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Hovioike=
udenpuistikko 13
<span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);background:white">as 3, 65100 Vaasa</spa=
n></span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><br>
+358 (0)50 588 6894<br>
email: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">heikki.saha@=
tke.fi</a><br>
skype: heikki.saha_tke<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA">We are also in the 17th iCC: <a=
 href=3D"https://www.can-cia.org/icc" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.can-cia.org/icc</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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</blockquote></div>

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