Re: [EE] PCB Manufacturers.

>  I'd be interested in hearing more about pcbway and faked reports.

I ordered some prototype panels from pcbway using the advanced PCB service
(custom stackup). At first I was quite happy with how they dealt with the
order, and they provided an inspection report + the physical microsection
sample and impedance test coupon with the order. Everything looked great.

Then a while later, we needed more samples of the same board for further
testing. There were no design changes at all, I just reordered the same
design. They provided a new final inspection report + samples, with the new
order date on it.

On comparison of the reports, it was immediately obvious that they had
simply copy-pasted the report contents and changed the date on every page.

The main giveaway is the page about the microsectional analysis, where they
have measured various layer/plating thicknesses under the microscope and
given the measurements with a resolution of 0.01um. I don't think that is a
realistic measurement precision, but I can ignore that. What I can't ignore
is that the measurements were all exactly identical between the two
reports. Clearly, they did not actually re-measure the new samples.

Similarly the controlled impedance measurements were given to 0.01ohm
resolution, and yet the numbers matched exactly. I don't think it's
realistically achievable for two samples from different lots months apart
to measure absolutely identically at that resolution. They clearly didn't
measure it again.

To me, reissuing a report like that with the new order number/date on it
but copy/pasted data is a deliberate attempt to deceive. I need to be able
to trust vendors not to lie to me, so they did not get the production order.

David


On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 at 19:30, Alan Pearce <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Me too, I was wondering what and how you discovered whatever the problem
> was, and how you managed to call them out on it.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 at 22:31, David VanHorn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I'd be interested in hearing more about pcbway and faked reports.
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 22, 2025, 5:47 PM David Robertson <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > At work, I decided not to use PCBWay again after I caught them
> > fabricating
> > > inspection report data. For hobby projects you might not care, but for
> me
> > > it just means I don't trust them any more.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 at 19:38, David VanHorn <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > PCBway here.
> > > >
> > > > Also FWIW Kicad 9.0 is out, and their OBD output is working nicely.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Feb 22, 2025 at 4:34 PM Allen Mulvey <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I have been using JLCPCB for the last few years. KiCAD has a plugin
> > for
> > > > > them also. Here in the USA they have the usual FedEx, DHL, and UPS
> > but
> > > > > they also have Global Standard Direct Line which is very cheap
> (about
> > > > > $1.50) but it takes about a week and a half to get to Rome, NY,
> USA.
> > > > > This was recently added, in last year or so. With DHL I can order
> on
> > > > > Monday and have them on Friday.
> > > > >
> > > > > Allen Mulvey
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2/22/2025 4:57 PM, Dwayne Reid wrote:
> > > > > > Hi there, David.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm in Canada - my results may not jive with where you are.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We currently use:
> > > > > > JLCPCB
> > > > > > KINGCREDIE
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JLCPCB gets by far the majority of our work.  But Linda at
> > KingCredie
> > > > > > is a joy to work with and I still do all of the flex circuit
> boards
> > > we
> > > > > > build with them.  They are somewhat more expensive than JLCPCB
> but
> > > the
> > > > > > help Linda have give to us in the past has to count for
> something.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JLCPCB offers several different ship options: DHL, UPS, FedEx.
> > FedEx
> > > > > > is alway the most expensive, so we don't use them.  DHL and UPS
> > seem
> > > > > > to see-saw back and forth as to who has the better ship price.  I
> > > just
> > > > > > go with whoever is the least expensive at the time of order.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Be aware that ordering a SMT stencil results in two packages.
> This
> > > > > > approximately doubles the cost of shipping as compared to just
> > > getting
> > > > > > the bare boards.  But the stencils are always perfect and it is
> far
> > > > > > simpler to just accept the extra cost of shipping.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I used to send RFQ's to several dozen different PCB suppliers.  I
> > > quit
> > > > > > doing that when I found that I was mostly ordering from JLCPCB.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It looks like you are in the UK.  Maybe check out PCBWay.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also - maybe check out the current version of KiCAD for your
> > layouts
> > > > > > and schematics.  Although I have dabbled with it, I still stay
> with
> > > my
> > > > > > old standbys: EE Designer II and CADint.  But I would be all over
> > > > > > KiCAD if I wasn't so heavily invested in my current tools.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > dwayne
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 10:56 AM 2/22/2025, David C Brown wrote:
> > > > > >> I know that this has been done to death but there might be new
> > > > > >> ibformation.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Since retiring I have been building circuits on stripboard which
> > is
> > > > > >> never
> > > > > >> very satisfactory.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> So I have resurrected the copy of PROTEL which fell into my
> > > cardboard
> > > > > >> box
> > > > > >> when I required and designed proper circuit boards.  It is
> > > convenient
> > > > > >> that
> > > > > >> the schematic editor, Tinycad, can output Protel nelists.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Now I need a cheap manufacturer.  In the first instance I will
> put
> > > > price
> > > > > >> above quality since, in my experience,  first attempts usually
> > > > > >> contain some
> > > > > >> flaw that necessitates a redesign..
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Also can anyone recommend a free Gerber viewer now that
> GCPreview
> > is
> > > > no
> > > > > >> longer free?
> > > > > >> __________________________________________
> > > > > >> David C Brown
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > --
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