Re: Asm source code page?

On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 10:16:29 +1030, Al wrote:

>Hi Jon, the strange stuff I talk about was a tendency to crash if you 
>disconnected power from the target unit accidentally. Or to lose lose 
>contact and have to be reset or restarted if the USB lost contact. I 
>even had one version that would crash my computer regularly. I tested 
>all of these across at least 2 machines and a laptop, but that was a 
>long time ago.

Oh. Yeah. I *DO* have troubles with the MSP430 drivers. Or
*HAVE HAD*, anyway. I'll have to go download the newest
Kickstart from IAR, load it onto this new desktop, and see
what happens here. Been meaning to do that, anyway. I'm off
doing non-MSP430 stuff, so it's been a while.

(I'm working on data structures and techniques that scale
nearly linearly on [16 and more] multi-cpu/multi-core
systems, including some novel thoughts on software
transactional memory applied to shared B+ tree structures,
for one example.)

>It has been solid for quite a few years now. In the very 
>early days of the flash parts you actually had to match the Kickstart 
>version to the batch number, but that was mostly cured when Ti moved 
>from the clunky old serial port JTAG to the USB one.

Hmm. Okay.

>I too am extremely grateful to IAR for fielding such a well rounded tool 
>for free for all these years. I have written hundreds of programs using 
>it, and mostly it has been a very enjoyable process for me.

It's just good stuff for assembly programmers, a diminishing
percentage as that group may be these days. It's also good
for anyone mixing assembly and C (at least some of which, in
embedded work, they almost always should be doing anyway.) I
like the way they've integrated their compiler and assembler
tool sets. And since it is so easy to install and get using
right away, I recommend it to students and hobbyists as a
first choice tool. But I also have a great deal of respect
for several of the other compiler tool vendors in the MSP430
space. Good folks, good tools. Just not such a greased slide
as IAR offers for newbies.

Jon

>
>Al
>
>On 12/01/2016 7:59 AM, Jon Kirwan [email protected] [msp430] wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 19:33:47 +1030, Al wrote:
>>
>>> I Totally agree with Jon.
>>    :)
>>
>>> IAR's assembler is excellent, does everything
>>> I want, is unlimited, is free, and since I don't use any libraries from
>>> third parties there are no royalty issues.
>> That assembler and linker tool-pair is good. I've used a LOT
>> of assemblers in my life and have written a few, as well.
>> This one from IAR is about as good as assemblers for micros
>> usually get. The abstract segmentation model is great. The
>> macro facility could be better, but I consider it "good
>> enough for most things." (I can also use M4 or some other
>> tool on the source where I feel there are some limitations.
>> Such tools won't be fluent with the semantics but they may be
>> fruitfully used. I just haven't felt enough of a need yet,
>> since IAR's capabilities are good enough for now.)
>>
>>> The IDE is straightforward, and quite good.
>> It's remarkably easy to get started using and remains very
>> capable as you advance further over time. It just wears well
>> over time. They've done a very good job on its design. And,
>> fortunately for some of us, have decided to offer a fully
>> functional toolset for assembler programmers at no charge.
>> I'm in debt to them for this fact.
>>
>> (I'm also in debt for another reason -- I've never needed
>> more than an additional 4k of C generated code for an MSP430
>> project, so the KickStart has been "good enough" for all my
>> project uses so far.)
>>
>>> It used to do some strange things, but they seem to have
>>> been cleaned up over the years, either that or I subconsciously avoid
>>> them!
>> I haven't found anything that was "strange." I have found
>> things that took a moment to consider before I fully
>> understood them. But once I gathered up the conceptual model
>> they made good sense to me.
>>
>> The only "strange" things are things I've done myself with
>> their toolset. For example, I needed a way to find the
>> largest common divisor for a pair of configuration parameters
>> to help me set up a clocking system that would serve two
>> purposes at once with only integer multiplier differences in
>> their operation. I hacked up a MACRO tool to do exactly that,
>> too. Worked perfectly. Now, someone looking at it would see
>> "strange" there, I suppose. But that's my fault, not IARs!
>>
>>> I find the syntax is more in line with the vast majority of
>>> assemblers I've used over the last too many years, no strange things.
>> That's pretty much my feeling, too.
>>
>>> Their header files for each processor are also quite good, but large
>>> because they are general use for C, c++ and assembler, so I personally
>>> always clean out all the stuff I am unlikely to use, add some stuff that
>>> I personally like to use, and rename the file, so I have an original
>>> version incase I ever decide to mix assembly and C for example.
>> Hmm. So far, I've not bothered with that. In part, perhaps,
>> because I haven't done as much as you have and haven't
>> reached a situation where the trouble would have been worth
>> it. In part, perhaps, because I tend not to change standard
>> facilities unless I can clearly justify the change. I'd
>> rather use an additional file I create and add it to the
>> inclusion list. But again, you probably have a wider array of
>> usages than I do and I may very well have made similar
>> choices if I had faced similar situations, too.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Al
>>>
>>> On 11/01/2016 6:15 AM, Jon Kirwan [email protected] [msp430] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 22:47:23 -0800, Craig Carmichael wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ... ideas for web pages of sample code in Asm?
>>>> Just as an additional note...
>>>>
>>>> If you are interested in writing assembly-only projects for
>>>> the MSP430 and MSP430X families, I'd recommend using IAR's
>>>> Kickstart tools. Their assembler is quite general-purpose and
>>>> does NOT have any code size limitations at all. See:
>>>>
>>>> http://supp.iar.com/FilesPublic/UPDINFO/004578/infocenter/product_packages.html
>>>>
>>>> where the 2nd bullet under the Kickstart heading says, "The
>>>> IAR Assembler delivered is the full version without any
>>>> restrictions" and the 3rd bullet expands, "The IAR XLINK
>>>> Linker will link ... an unlimited amount of code originating
>>>> from assembly code." (The 4th bullet adds, "The IAR KickStart
>>>> C-SPY Simulator ... is unlimited in the amount of assembly
>>>> code read.") This pretty much means you get an excellent
>>>> assembler/linker toolset, plus a very nice IDE and debugger
>>>> for coding purposes and ZERO cost to you. I've used IAR for
>>>> assembly coding development and I really like the tools a
>>>> lot, as they present a very clean, orthogonal design with all
>>>> the features you need. Other assembler tools I've used, off
>>>> and on, tend to have odd "limitations" which are frustrating
>>>> at times. IAR's tools "just work well." Never wished for a
>>>> feature that I couldn't already find in IAR's assembler +
>>>> linker toolset.
>>>>
>>>> You can also explore C/C++ with IAR's tools, but the free
>>>> Kickstart version does limit your final application size.
>>>> IAR asks a "fairly high price" for unlimited C/C++ code
>>>> sizes. If you do plan on mixing C and assembly and plan on
>>>> developing larger applications then you should consider other
>>>> tools for a cost/benefit analysis. A starting point might be
>>>> TI's page here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/microcontrollers_16-bit_32-bit/msp/tools_software.page
>>>>
>>>> However, be aware that this page in no way provides all your
>>>> options. Rowley and ImageCraft are just two such examples
>>>> that you don't see there:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.rowley.co.uk/msp430/
>>>> https://www.imagecraft.com/devtools_MSP430.html
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure there are others, as well, that aren't included in
>>>> the TI page.
>>>>
>>>> If you are doing this all as a hobby, then you are free to
>>>> make your own choices about assembly-only or mixed coding
>>>> styles. Whatever makes you happy works just fine.
>>>>
>>>> If you have your own product/product-line in mind, then you
>>>> need to be aware of licensing issues (libraries used, as well
>>>> as compiler generated output) for the tools you apply. I
>>>> believe you can use the IAR assembler/linker toolchain for
>>>> commercial products without paying them a fee, so long as you
>>>> are careful about library use (not using any library other
>>>> than public domain would be safer.) It sounds like you might
>>>> be in this frame of mind, but it is hard to tell.
>>>>
>>>> For professional contract work, you will want to be able to
>>>> support mixed assembly and C/C++. Clients deserve to have the
>>>> widest range of options available for their project
>>>> development so that the overall development process can be
>>>> optimized for them, weighing all conditions appropriate to
>>>> their circumstances. You should then carefully study the
>>>> various commercial options. But you should ALSO contact the
>>>> vendors, too, and speak or write to a human there and get a
>>>> feel for what contact and support will be like after you buy
>>>> their tools. Most MSP430 vendors should be pretty good, I
>>>> think. But it helps to make contact and see how things play
>>>> out before making a final decision and spending your money.
>>>>
>>>> As an employee in an organization with more than one
>>>> programmer, which does NOT sound like your situation, you do
>>>> what has been established by careful consideration of your
>>>> team members. If you are a sole employee, then I suppose you
>>>> get to make your own choices but you need to make them well
>>>> for those depending on you.
>>>>
>>>> Jon
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>> Posted by: Jon Kirwan <[email protected]>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
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Posted by: Jon Kirwan <[email protected]>
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