Re: Looking for discussion - Design contest websites
"Tim Hardy" <[email protected]> Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:02:41 -0600
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I received a response or two via email that I'd like to respond to via the
list, just so I don't have to write the same thing multiple times and
everyone can benefit from the conversation. I'll omit one of the author's
original text out of respect, but they were diplomatic with a common
question. "Why do you want to do this?" (paraphrased). There was also some
comments about how bad 99designs.com is, which I agree with.
I'm not even looking at 99designs.com for insight because they frankly are
the worst to designers. I'm not sure why any designers participate in that
site. Take a look at logotournament.com instead. I think they treat
designers the best and I would be looking to improve on what they've done.
Here are a few highlights:
. They have a minimum price of $250
. They require the money up front, so no one gets stiffed. Any
logos not selected remain the property of the designer.
. I don't think anyone would take an idea from logotournament and
have someone else redo it because they've already paid for it once and.
. The community is empowered to find and punish any abuse.
Designers get banned for copying, and it's all handled democratically (jury
of peers and all that). That doesn't mean that an unethical customer
couldn't take the idea to another site, but I don't see why they would,
since they've already paid for it once and the original designer could alter
it easiest.
. Logotournament also makes it easier to connect winning designers
with customers. I think they hook you up after winning, unlike the other
sites. If they don't, then this is something I would definitely do. This
makes follow on work a real possibility, whereas sites like crowdspring lock
their designers down (you have to do everything through them).
. They are making it increasingly difficult for designers to join,
demanding proof of some skill and/or track record. (Must present a
portfolio, take a quiz, answer some questions, then get voted in by the
existing community). I think Logotournament is the first of these sites to
really understand crowdsourcing. If you're going to leverage any power of
the crowd, you have to let the crowd manage itself.
As to why I'm even considering making a site like this. I'm conviced that
design contests are growing. No matter what anyone thinks about them, they
are gaining a lot of ground and there are two things that can happen:
. Designers can argue against the concept and do very little to
alter the outcome
. They can take steps to influence and turn the flood in a better
direction. (I'm not saying the arguments haven't made some positive impact
- they have, but it's not going away and there are no designers talking
about how it should be ALTERED instead of stopped)
I firmly believe in the first statement because all economic change is
fueled by the consumer - the source of the money in this instance.
Consumers are falling over themselves to spend money on these sites and the
supply of the designers willing to work on them is not diminishing - it's
growing. I agree with you on many points, but I think history is going to
look back on this movement dispassionately and simply state that it
happened. There was a void not being filled in the design community, and
technology facilitated a new way for people to get low-cost design (or
perhaps "commercial art", which is probably a more accurate description of
what is being sold on these sites).
Here are a couple improvements I see that can possibly be made:
. For starters, giving at least some payout to more than just the
winner. At a minimum the second place, and maybe even the third place
designer should get something, since the entire draw of these "contests" is
the diversity of input received in each contest.
. Full community management (logotournament does a pretty good job
of this already). Members are incentivized to find and stamp out copyright
infringement. They call it "Logo court" and juries are held to examine and
decide on each accusation. Designers can be banned. I would argue that a
thousands-strong incentivized community can do a much better job of policing
copyright issues than the majority of small design firms that exist today.
This is the real strength of crowdsourcing - a large community motivated to
do something valuable.
I'm still not convinced that I'm going to build this site, but I honestly
think the design community would be better off it focused more attention on
reforming these sites instead of ignoring them. I don't think they're going
to stop.
Tim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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<p>I received a response or two via email that I'd like to respond to via the<br>
list, just so I don't have to write the same thing multiple times and<br>
everyone can benefit from the conversation. I'll omit one of the author's<br>
original text out of respect, but they were diplomatic with a common<br>
question. "Why do you want to do this?" (paraphrased)<wbr>. There was also some<br>
comments about how bad 99designs.com is, which I agree with.<br>
<br>
I'm not even looking at 99designs.com for insight because they frankly are<br>
the worst to designers. I'm not sure why any designers participate in that<br>
site. Take a look at logotournament.<wbr>com instead. I think they treat<br>
designers the best and I would be looking to improve on what they've done.<br>
Here are a few highlights:<br>
<br>
. They have a minimum price of $250<br>
<br>
. They require the money up front, so no one gets stiffed. Any<br>
logos not selected remain the property of the designer.<br>
<br>
. I don't think anyone would take an idea from logotournament and<br>
have someone else redo it because they've already paid for it once and.<br>
<br>
. The community is empowered to find and punish any abuse.<br>
Designers get banned for copying, and it's all handled democratically (jury<br>
of peers and all that). That doesn't mean that an unethical customer<br>
couldn't take the idea to another site, but I don't see why they would,<br>
since they've already paid for it once and the original designer could alter<br>
it easiest.<br>
<br>
. Logotournament also makes it easier to connect winning designers<br>
with customers. I think they hook you up after winning, unlike the other<br>
sites. If they don't, then this is something I would definitely do. This<br>
makes follow on work a real possibility, whereas sites like crowdspring lock<br>
their designers down (you have to do everything through them).<br>
<br>
. They are making it increasingly difficult for designers to join,<br>
demanding proof of some skill and/or track record. (Must present a<br>
portfolio, take a quiz, answer some questions, then get voted in by the<br>
existing community). I think Logotournament is the first of these sites to<br>
really understand crowdsourcing. If you're going to leverage any power of<br>
the crowd, you have to let the crowd manage itself.<br>
<br>
As to why I'm even considering making a site like this. I'm conviced that<br>
design contests are growing. No matter what anyone thinks about them, they<br>
are gaining a lot of ground and there are two things that can happen:<br>
<br>
. Designers can argue against the concept and do very little to<br>
alter the outcome <br>
<br>
. They can take steps to influence and turn the flood in a better<br>
direction. (I'm not saying the arguments haven't made some positive impact<br>
- they have, but it's not going away and there are no designers talking<br>
about how it should be ALTERED instead of stopped)<br>
<br>
I firmly believe in the first statement because all economic change is<br>
fueled by the consumer - the source of the money in this instance.<br>
Consumers are falling over themselves to spend money on these sites and the<br>
supply of the designers willing to work on them is not diminishing - it's<br>
growing. I agree with you on many points, but I think history is going to<br>
look back on this movement dispassionately and simply state that it<br>
happened. There was a void not being filled in the design community, and<br>
technology facilitated a new way for people to get low-cost design (or<br>
perhaps "commercial art", which is probably a more accurate description of<br>
what is being sold on these sites).<br>
<br>
Here are a couple improvements I see that can possibly be made:<br>
<br>
. For starters, giving at least some payout to more than just the<br>
winner. At a minimum the second place, and maybe even the third place<br>
designer should get something, since the entire draw of these "contests" is<br>
the diversity of input received in each contest.<br>
<br>
. Full community management (logotournament does a pretty good job<br>
of this already). Members are incentivized to find and stamp out copyright<br>
infringement. They call it "Logo court" and juries are held to examine and<br>
decide on each accusation. Designers can be banned. I would argue that a<br>
thousands-strong incentivized community can do a much better job of policing<br>
copyright issues than the majority of small design firms that exist today.<br>
This is the real strength of crowdsourcing - a large community motivated to<br>
do something valuable.<br>
<br>
I'm still not convinced that I'm going to build this site, but I honestly<br>
think the design community would be better off it focused more attention on<br>
reforming these sites instead of ignoring them. I don't think they're going<br>
to stop.<br>
<br>
Tim<br>
<br>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<br>
<br>
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