Re: Learning more from harder-to-read fonts?
Ricardo Martins <[email protected]> Sat, 04 Jun 2011 11:13:10 -0300
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.infodesign.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1084175387== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050005090501080208000109" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050005090501080208000109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ns.webtic.nl id p54EDK1J017010 Reading is really a fascinating and complex area. Many argue that something "legible" is something that can be read=20 quickly, smoothly, and it drives a lot of research toward simple=20 writing, using few strokes on letters, and so on. However, Carver (1992)=20 stated that the "speed of thought", which is a cognitive factor, is more=20 important for reading than just the shape of letters and their=20 distinctiveness. Patricia Wright (1978), on the concept of legibility,=20 thinks the same as saying that information processes related to sensory=20 information on the printed page, are dominated by higher levels of=20 analysis (conceptual and interpretative). Reading speed doesn=B4t mean,=20 not always, better understanding (in fact, can mean the opposite). Finally,it is stillearly tomakedirect statementsabout=20 causeandeffectbetweentheshapes of the lettersandefficient comprehension. CARVER, R. *Reading rate: theory, research, and practical implications*.=20 /Journal of Reading/, v.36, n.2. 1992 WRIGHT, P. *Feeding the information eaters: suggestions for integrating=20 pure and applied research on language comprehension*. /Instructional=20 Science/, v.7., 1978 M.Sc. Ricardo Martins Federal University of Paran=E1 Curitiba, PR - Brazil Em 04/06/2011 10:23, Charles Foster escreveu: > Dear Sue > > I'm disappointed that no one else has commented on your post! There=20 > used to be a number of experts in this Cafe, but things have gone very=20 > quiet over the last couple of years, so perhaps they have moved onto=20 > other places for discussion. > > I think the problem for information designers with studies like this=20 > is that they run so directly against our own instincts and training.=20 > For the most part, we spend our time trying to make text more easy to=20 > read and thereby more useable by our clients. The whole notion of=20 > disfluency -- of making something less fluent, less useable and more=20 > ugly =96=96 is an anathema, and sounds like something cooked up by=20 > academics rather than practitioners. I'm afraid that I simply cannot=20 > accept that the production of any sort of teaching material in Comic=20 > Sans, Hattenschweiler or Monotype Corsiva is a good idea. > > There have been sporadic discussions in this Cafe down the years about=20 > what fonts are best for reading. They have all petered out because as=20 > someone always indicates there are so many variables involved -- size,=20 > line length, leading, spacing, colour etc etc -- that it is impossible=20 > to make a set of rules. > > Anyway, FWIW, those are my views. I don't have time to write a longer=20 > post at the moment, but I wanted to let you know that at least one=20 > person had read your original contribution and taken the trouble to=20 > look up the reference. > > By the way, you have posted the link to the Princeton article twice,=20 > and omitted the link to the one in the Economist. > > best wishes > > Charles Foster > > > -------------------------------------- > Charles Foster > email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > > > On 2 Jun 2011, at 21:40, Smith, Susan N - (snsmith) wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I=92m a teacher and have a few weeks to read what I want for a change.= =20 >> I came across this study (link to story about it, and the actual=20 >> study, below). >> >> 1.In the first study, the test group read items in Bodoni MT italic=20 >> 60% gray scale or Comic Sans 12 point 60% gray scale. The control=20 >> group read Arial 16-point. >> >> 2.In the second study, high school teachers sent their learning=20 >> materials to the study, and =BD were made the test groups read things=20 >> in Haettenschweiler, Monotype Corsiva, or Comic Sans italicized in=20 >> 12-point. Alternatively, some materials were copied by moving the=20 >> paper up and down while copying when electronic docs were=20 >> unavailable. The control group was left in the fonts the teachers=20 >> themselves chose; those fonts are unnamed. >> >> This is one of the study=92s conclusions: >> >> This study demonstrated that student retention of material across a=20 >> wide range of subjects (science and >> >> humanities classes) and difficulty levels (regular, Honors and=20 >> Advanced Placement) can be significantly improved >> >> in naturalistic settings by presenting reading material in a format=20 >> that is slightly harder to read. While disfluency >> >> appears to operate as a desirable difficulty, presumably engendering=20 >> deeper processing strategies (c.f. Alter et al., >> >> 2007), the effect is driven by a surface feature that prima facie has=20 >> nothing to do with semantic processing. >> >> The authors point out that the retention was only for 15 minutes, so=20 >> there may be less pronounced difference in longer terms. >> >> Anyway, it seems odd to me on many, many levels=97I wouldn=92t conside= r=20 >> reading Arial 16 on a paper as a =93fluent=94 choice. Someone found t= hat=20 >> a good font has about 70 or fewer characters in a line (Schriver=92s=20 >> /Dynamics in Document Design/, p. 263). They also don=92t mention=20 >> leading. They don=92t cite reasons that Arial 16 point was used, eith= er. >> >> I=92d be interested in what Info-D folk think of this kind of study. = I=20 >> am sometimes amazed at how blithely unaware some fields are about desi= gn. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Sue Smith >> >> Economist Article about the Study: >> >> http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yauman_Oppenheime= r_2010.pdf >> >> Actual Study >> >> http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yauman_Oppenheime= r_2010.pdf >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: >> [email protected]=20 >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: >> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe >> >> For all Information Design matters: >> http://InformationDesign.org >> >> Problems? Write to: >> [email protected]=20 >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> ___________________________________________________________________ > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > [email protected] > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > [email protected] > ___________________________________________________________________ --------------050005090501080208000109 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ns.webtic.nl id p54EDK1J017010 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" http-equiv=3D"Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"> Reading is really a fascinating and complex area. <br> <br> Many argue that something "legible" is something that can be read quickly, smoothly, and it drives a lot of research toward simple writing, using few strokes on letters, and so on. However, Carver (1992) stated that the "speed of thought", which is a cognitive factor, is more important for reading than just the shape of letters and their distinctiveness. Patricia Wright (1978), on the concept of legibility, thinks the same as saying that information processes related to sensory information on the printed page, are dominated by higher levels of analysis (conceptual and interpretative). Reading speed doesn=B4t mean, not always, better understanding (in fact, can mean the opposite).<br> <br> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: arial,sans-serif= ; font-size: 16px;"><span class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostra= r tradu=E7=F5es alternativas">Finally</span><span title=3D"Clique= para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es alternativas">,</span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><span class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es alternativas">it is = still</span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><span class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es alternativas">early = to</span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><span class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es alternativas">make</= span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><span class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es alternativas">direct statements</span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</spa= n><span class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es altern= ativas">about cause</span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><sp= an class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es altern= ativas">and</span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><span class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es alternativas">effect= </span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><span class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es alternativas">betwee= n</span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><span class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es alternativas">the</s= pan><span class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es altern= ativas"> shapes of the letters</span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><span class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es alternativas">and</s= pan><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es alternativas"></span= ><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"></span><span class=3D"hps" title=3D"Clique para mostrar tradu=E7=F5es alternativas">effici= ent comprehension.</span></span></span><br> <br> CARVER, R. <b>Reading rate: theory, research, and practical implications</b>. <i>Journal of Reading</i>, v.36, n.2. 1992<br> <br> WRIGHT, P. <b>Feeding the information eaters: suggestions for integrating pure and applied research on language comprehension</b>. <i>Instructional Science</i>, v.7., 1978<br> <br> M.Sc. Ricardo Martins<br> Federal University of Paran=E1<br> Curitiba, PR - Brazil<br> <br> <br> Em 04/06/2011 10:23, Charles Foster escreveu: <blockquote cite=3D"mid:[email protected]" type=3D"cite"> Dear Sue <div><br> </div> <div>I'm disappointed that no one else has commented on your post! There used to be a number of experts in this Cafe, but things have gone very quiet over the last couple of years, so perhaps they have moved onto other places for discussion.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>I think the problem for information designers with studies like this is that they run so directly against our own instincts and training. For the most part, we spend our time trying to make text more easy to read and thereby more useable by our clients. The whole notion of disfluency -- of making something less fluent, less useable and more ugly =96=96 is an anathema, an= d sounds like something cooked up by academics rather than practitioners. I'm afraid that I simply cannot accept that the production of any sort of teaching material in Comic Sans, Hattenschweiler or Monotype Corsiva is a good idea.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>There have been sporadic discussions in this Cafe down the years about what fonts are best for reading. They have all petered out because as someone always indicates there are so many variables involved -- size, line length, leading, spacing, colour etc etc -- that it is impossible to make a set of rules.</= div> <div><br> </div> <div>Anyway, FWIW, those are my views. I don't have time to write a longer post at the moment, but I wanted to let you know that at least one person had read your original contribution and taken the trouble to look up the reference.=A0</div> <div><br> </div> <div>By the way, you have posted the link to the Princeton article twice, and omitted the link to the one in the Economist.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>best wishes</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Charles Foster</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> <div> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separa= te; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"> <div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px;"> <div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-siz= e: 11px;"> <div>--------------------------------------</div> <div>Charles Foster</div> <div>email: <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">cjfoster@ei= rcom.net</a></div> <div><br> </div> </span></div> </span></div> <div><br> </div> </span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <br> <div> <div>On 2 Jun 2011, at 21:40, Smith, Susan N - (snsmith) wrote:</div> <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=92m a teacher and have a few weeks= to read what I want for a change.=A0 I came across this stud= y (link to story about it, and the actual study, below).<o:= p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent: -0.25in= ;"><span style=3D"">1.<span style=3D"font: 7pt "Times New Roman";">=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 </span></span>In the fi= rst study, the test group read items in Bodoni MT italic 60% gray scale or Comic Sans 12 point 60% gray scale. The control group read Arial 16-point. <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent: -0.25in= ;"><span style=3D"">2.<span style=3D"font: 7pt "Times New Roman";">=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 </span></span>In the se= cond study, high school teachers sent their learning materials to the study, and =BD were made the test groups read things in Haettenschweiler, Monotype Corsiva, or Comic Sans italicized in 12-point. Alternatively, some materials were copied by moving the paper up and down while copying when electronic docs were unavailable. The control group was left in the fonts the teachers themselves chose; those fonts are unnamed.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is one of the study=92s conclusions:<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left: 0.25in;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">This study demonstrated that student retention of material across a wide range of subjects (science and<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left: 0.25in;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">humanities classes) and difficulty levels (regular, Honors and Advanced Placement) can be significantly improved<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left: 0.25in;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">in naturalistic settings by presenting reading material in a format that is slightly harder to read. While disfluency<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left: 0.25in;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">appears to operate as a desirable difficulty, presumably engendering deeper processing strategies (c.f. </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">Alter et al.,<o:p></o:p></span>= </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left: 0.25in;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">2007</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">), the effect is driven by a surface feature that prima facie has nothing to do with semantic processing.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left: 0.25in;"><o:p>= =A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">The authors point out that the retention was only for 15 minutes, so there may be less pronounced difference in longer terms.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Anyway, it seems odd to me on many, many levels=97I wouldn=92t consider reading Arial 16 on a paper as a =93fluent=94 choice.=A0 Someone found that a g= ood font has about 70 or fewer characters in a line (Schriver=92s <i>Dynamics in Document Design</i>, p. 263).=A0 They also don=92t mention leading.=A0 They don=92= t cite reasons that Arial 16 point was used, either.=A0 <o:p></o= :p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=92d be interested in what Info-D f= olk think of this kind of study.=A0 I am sometimes amazed at how blithely unaware some fields are about design.<o:p></= o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sue Smith<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Economist Article about the Study:<o= :p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yauman_Oppen= heimer_2010.pdf">http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yau= man_Oppenheimer_2010.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>=A0</o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Actual Study<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yauman_Oppen= heimer_2010.pdf">http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yau= man_Oppenheimer_2010.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>=A0</o:p></span></p> </div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px;">_________________________________= __________________________________</div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px;">Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= ">[email protected]</a></div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px;">To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit:</div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-caf= e">http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe</a>= </div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px;">For all Information Design matters:</div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"http://InformationDesign.org">http://InformationD= esign.org</a></div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px;">Problems? Write to:</div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= gn.org">[email protected]</a></div> <div style=3D"margin: 0px;">_________________________________= __________________________________</div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> <pre wrap=3D""> <fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> ___________________________________________________________________ Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers:=20 <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:infodesign-cafe@lis= t.informationdesign.org">[email protected]</a> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://list.InformationDesign= .org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe">http://list.InformationDesign.org/= mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe</a> For all Information Design matters: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://InformationDesign.org"= >http://InformationDesign.org</a> Problems? Write to: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:InfoDesign-Cafe-Adm= [email protected]">[email protected]= gn.org</a> ___________________________________________________________________ </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------050005090501080208000109-- --===============1084175387== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ___________________________________________________________________ Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe For all Information Design matters: http://InformationDesign.org Problems? Write to: [email protected] ___________________________________________________________________ --===============1084175387==--