Re: Learning more from harder-to-read fonts?
Jorge Frascara <[email protected]> Sat, 4 Jun 2011 15:38:29 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.infodesign.general |
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--===============1418501275== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cb9f6508f5404a4e2fcff --0015175cb9f6508f5404a4e2fcff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Susan, I do believe that if something involves a heel of an effort you are more likely to remember it. However, one of the basic premises is that people no= t involved in a test, but freely able to choose to read or not to read, give up reading quite easily if the text does not appear easy to read. I also believe that one has to consider the effort a peroson has to deply and the energy that that takes. Fatigue in the workplace is an issue. If I were to design hospital forms that are difficult to fill up, maybe people will pay more attention, but at the end of the day they will be exhausted. There is more to reading than reading and remembering. If I were to have to read a text set in one of those fonts you emntion, I would feel outraged, s= o that in addition to my effort I would have to digest my anger, that will accumulate with my perceptual difficulties to make it finally a hellish experience. So, here you have my grain of salt. best wishes Jorge Frascara On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Charles Foster <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Sue > > I'm disappointed that no one else has commented on your post! There used = to > be a number of experts in this Cafe, but things have gone very quiet over > the last couple of years, so perhaps they have moved onto other places fo= r > discussion. > > I think the problem for information designers with studies like this is > that they run so directly against our own instincts and training. For the > most part, we spend our time trying to make text more easy to read and > thereby more useable by our clients. The whole notion of disfluency -- of > making something less fluent, less useable and more ugly =96=96 is an ana= thema, > and sounds like something cooked up by academics rather than practitioner= s. > I'm afraid that I simply cannot accept that the production of any sort of > teaching material in Comic Sans, Hattenschweiler or Monotype Corsiva is a > good idea. > > There have been sporadic discussions in this Cafe down the years about wh= at > fonts are best for reading. They have all petered out because as someone > always indicates there are so many variables involved -- size, line lengt= h, > leading, spacing, colour etc etc -- that it is impossible to make a set o= f > rules. > > Anyway, FWIW, those are my views. I don't have time to write a longer pos= t > at the moment, but I wanted to let you know that at least one person had > read your original contribution and taken the trouble to look up the > reference. > > By the way, you have posted the link to the Princeton article twice, and > omitted the link to the one in the Economist. > > best wishes > > Charles Foster > > > -------------------------------------- > Charles Foster > email: [email protected] > > > > > > On 2 Jun 2011, at 21:40, Smith, Susan N - (snsmith) wrote: > > Hi, > > I=92m a teacher and have a few weeks to read what I want for a change. I > came across this study (link to story about it, and the actual study, > below). > > > > 1. In the first study, the test group read items in Bodoni MT italic > 60% gray scale or Comic Sans 12 point 60% gray scale. The control group r= ead > Arial 16-point. > > > > 2. In the second study, high school teachers sent their learning > materials to the study, and =BD were made the test groups read things in > Haettenschweiler, Monotype Corsiva, or Comic Sans italicized in 12-point. > Alternatively, some materials were copied by moving the paper up and down > while copying when electronic docs were unavailable. The control group wa= s > left in the fonts the teachers themselves chose; those fonts are unnamed. > > > > This is one of the study=92s conclusions: > > This study demonstrated that student retention of material across a wide > range of subjects (science and > > humanities classes) and difficulty levels (regular, Honors and Advanced > Placement) can be significantly improved > > in naturalistic settings by presenting reading material in a format that = is > slightly harder to read. While disfluency > > appears to operate as a desirable difficulty, presumably engendering deep= er > processing strategies (c.f. Alter et al., > > 2007), the effect is driven by a surface feature that prima facie has > nothing to do with semantic processing. > > > > The authors point out that the retention was only for 15 minutes, so ther= e > may be less pronounced difference in longer terms. > > > > Anyway, it seems odd to me on many, many levels=97I wouldn=92t consider r= eading > Arial 16 on a paper as a =93fluent=94 choice. Someone found that a good = font > has about 70 or fewer characters in a line (Schriver=92s *Dynamics in > Document Design*, p. 263). They also don=92t mention leading. They don= =92t > cite reasons that Arial 16 point was used, either. > > > > I=92d be interested in what Info-D folk think of this kind of study. I a= m > sometimes amazed at how blithely unaware some fields are about design. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Sue Smith > > > > Economist Article about the Study: > > > http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yauman_Oppenheimer_2= 010.pdf > > > > Actual Study > > > http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yauman_Oppenheimer_2= 010.pdf > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > [email protected] > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > [email protected] > ___________________________________________________________________ > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > [email protected] > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > [email protected] > ___________________________________________________________________ > > --0015175cb9f6508f5404a4e2fcff Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Susan,<div><br></div><div>I do believe that if something involves a he= el of an effort you are more likely to remember it. However, one of the bas= ic premises is that people not involved in a test, but freely able to choos= e to read or not to read, give up reading quite easily if the text does not= appear easy to read.</div> <div><br></div><div>I also believe that one has to consider the effort a pe= roson has to deply and the energy that that takes. Fatigue in the workplace= is an issue. If I were to design hospital forms that are difficult to fill= up, maybe people will pay more attention, but at the end of the day they w= ill be exhausted.=A0</div> <div><br></div><div>There is more to reading than reading and remembering. = If I were to have to read a text set in one of those fonts you emntion, I w= ould feel outraged, so that in addition to my effort I would have to digest= my anger, that will accumulate with my perceptual difficulties to make it = finally a hellish experience.</div> <div><br></div><div>So, here you have my grain of salt.</div><div><br></div= ><div>best wishes</div><div><br></div><div>Jorge Frascara<br><br><div class= =3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Charles Foster <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>= ></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"> Dear Sue<div><br></div><div>I'm disappointed that no one else has comme= nted on your post! There used to be a number of experts in this Cafe, but t= hings have gone very quiet over the last couple of years, so perhaps they h= ave moved onto other places for discussion.</div> <div><br></div><div>I think the problem for information designers with stud= ies like this is that they run so directly against our own instincts and tr= aining. For the most part, we spend our time trying to make text more easy = to read and thereby more useable by our clients. The whole notion of disflu= ency -- of making something less fluent, less useable and more ugly =96=96 = is an anathema, and sounds like something cooked up by academics rather tha= n practitioners. I'm afraid that I simply cannot accept that the produc= tion of any sort of teaching material in Comic Sans, Hattenschweiler or Mon= otype Corsiva is a good idea.</div> <div><br></div><div>There have been sporadic discussions in this Cafe down = the years about what fonts are best for reading. They have all petered out = because as someone always indicates there are so many variables involved --= size, line length, leading, spacing, colour etc etc -- that it is impossib= le to make a set of rules.</div> <div><br></div><div>Anyway, FWIW, those are my views. I don't have time= to write a longer post at the moment, but I wanted to let you know that at= least one person had read your original contribution and taken the trouble= to look up the reference.=A0</div> <div><br></div><div>By the way, you have posted the link to the Princeton a= rticle twice, and omitted the link to the one in the Economist.</div><div><= br></div><div>best wishes</div><div><br></div><div>Charles Foster</div> <div><br></div><div><br><div> <span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;color= :rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-var= iant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;tex= t-align:auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-sp= acing:0px"><span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-= family:Verdana;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-we= ight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-t= ransform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div> <span style=3D"font-size:12px"><div><span style=3D"font-size:11px"><div>---= -----------------------------------</div><div>Charles Foster</div><div>emai= l: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">cjfoster@eircom= .net</a></div> <div><br></div></span></div></span></div><div><br></div></span><br></span><= br> </div><br><div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><div>On 2 Jun 2011, at= 21:40, Smith, Susan N - (snsmith) wrote:</div><br></div></div><blockquote = type=3D"cite"> <div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,</p><p cla= ss=3D"MsoNormal">I=92m a teacher and have a few weeks to read what I want f= or a change.=A0 I came across this study (link to story about it, and the a= ctual study, below).</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p><p><span>1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt "Ti= mes New Roman"">=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 </span></span>In the first study, the = test group read items in Bodoni MT italic 60% gray scale or Comic Sans 12 p= oint 60% gray scale. The control group read Arial 16-point. </p> <p>=A0</p><p><span>2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""= >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 </span></span>In the second study, high school teachers se= nt their learning materials to the study, and =BD were made the test groups= read things in Haettenschweiler, Monotype Corsiva, or Comic Sans italicize= d in 12-point. Alternatively, some materials were copied by moving the pape= r up and down while copying when electronic docs were unavailable. The cont= rol group was left in the fonts the teachers themselves chose; those fonts = are unnamed.</p> <p>=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is one of the study=92s conclusions:<= /p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-autospace:none"><= span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black">This study demonstrated that st= udent retention of material across a wide range of subjects (science and</s= pan></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-autospace:none"><spa= n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black">humanities classes) and difficulty= levels (regular, Honors and Advanced Placement) can be significantly impro= ved</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-autospace:none"><spa= n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black">in naturalistic settings by presen= ting reading material in a format that is slightly harder to read. While di= sfluency</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-autospace:none"><spa= n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black">appears to operate as a desirable = difficulty, presumably engendering deeper processing strategies (c.f. </spa= n><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#000066">Alter et al.,</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-autospace:none"><spa= n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#000066">2007</span><span style=3D"font-s= ize:11.0pt;color:black">), the effect is driven by a surface feature that p= rima facie has nothing to do with semantic processing.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.25in">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNo= rmal">The authors point out that the retention was only for 15 minutes, so = there may be less pronounced difference in longer terms.</p><p class=3D"Mso= Normal"> =A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Anyway, it seems odd to me on many, many leve= ls=97I wouldn=92t consider reading Arial 16 on a paper as a =93fluent=94 ch= oice.=A0 Someone found that a good font has about 70 or fewer characters in= a line (Schriver=92s <i>Dynamics in Document Design</i>, p. 263).=A0 They = also don=92t mention leading.=A0 They don=92t cite reasons that Arial 16 po= int was used, either.=A0 </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=92d be interested in= what Info-D folk think of this kind of study.=A0 I am sometimes amazed at = how blithely unaware some fields are about design.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal= ">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> Thanks,</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sue Smith</= p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Economist Article ab= out the Study:</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://web.princeton.ed= u/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yauman_Oppenheimer_2010.pdf" target=3D"_blank= ">http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yauman_Oppenheimer_2= 010.pdf</a></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Actual Study</p><p cla= ss=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Di= emand-Yauman_Oppenheimer_2010.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://web.princeton.e= du/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yauman_Oppenheimer_2010.pdf</a></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">=A0</= span></p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;ma= rgin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">__________________________________________= _________________________</div> <div style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left= :0px;min-height:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0= px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">Use the following address to post a m= essage to all subscribers:<span>=A0</span></div> <div style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left= :0px"><span>=A0</span><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= ign.org" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a></= div> <div style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left= :0px;min-height:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0= px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">To subscribe, unsubscribe or change y= our options, visit:</div> <div style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left= :0px"><span>=A0</span><a href=3D"http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/= listinfo/infodesign-cafe" target=3D"_blank">http://list.InformationDesign.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe</a></div> <div style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left= :0px;min-height:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0= px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">For all Information Design matters:</= div> <div style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left= :0px"><span>=A0</span><a href=3D"http://InformationDesign.org" target=3D"_b= lank">http://InformationDesign.org</a></div><div style=3D"margin-top:0px;ma= rgin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:14px"> <br></div><div style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;m= argin-left:0px">Problems? 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Write to:<br> =A0<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Info= [email protected]</a><br> ___________________________________________________________________<br> <br></blockquote></div><br></div> --0015175cb9f6508f5404a4e2fcff-- --===============1418501275== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________ Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe For all Information Design matters: http://InformationDesign.org Problems? Write to: [email protected] ___________________________________________________________________ --===============1418501275==--