Re: Learning more from harder-to-read fonts?
Charles Foster <[email protected]> Sat, 4 Jun 2011 14:23:55 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.infodesign.general |
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--===============1589006554== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4-321637654 --Apple-Mail-4-321637654 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Dear Sue I'm disappointed that no one else has commented on your post! There =20 used to be a number of experts in this Cafe, but things have gone =20 very quiet over the last couple of years, so perhaps they have moved =20 onto other places for discussion. I think the problem for information designers with studies like this =20 is that they run so directly against our own instincts and training. =20 For the most part, we spend our time trying to make text more easy to =20= read and thereby more useable by our clients. The whole notion of =20 disfluency -- of making something less fluent, less useable and more =20 ugly =96=96 is an anathema, and sounds like something cooked up by =20 academics rather than practitioners. I'm afraid that I simply cannot =20 accept that the production of any sort of teaching material in Comic =20 Sans, Hattenschweiler or Monotype Corsiva is a good idea. There have been sporadic discussions in this Cafe down the years =20 about what fonts are best for reading. They have all petered out =20 because as someone always indicates there are so many variables =20 involved -- size, line length, leading, spacing, colour etc etc -- =20 that it is impossible to make a set of rules. Anyway, FWIW, those are my views. I don't have time to write a longer =20= post at the moment, but I wanted to let you know that at least one =20 person had read your original contribution and taken the trouble to =20 look up the reference. By the way, you have posted the link to the Princeton article twice, =20 and omitted the link to the one in the Economist. best wishes Charles Foster -------------------------------------- Charles Foster email: [email protected] On 2 Jun 2011, at 21:40, Smith, Susan N - (snsmith) wrote: > Hi, > > I=92m a teacher and have a few weeks to read what I want for a =20 > change. I came across this study (link to story about it, and the =20 > actual study, below). > > > > 1. In the first study, the test group read items in Bodoni MT =20 > italic 60% gray scale or Comic Sans 12 point 60% gray scale. The =20 > control group read Arial 16-point. > > > > 2. In the second study, high school teachers sent their =20 > learning materials to the study, and =BD were made the test groups =20 > read things in Haettenschweiler, Monotype Corsiva, or Comic Sans =20 > italicized in 12-point. Alternatively, some materials were copied =20 > by moving the paper up and down while copying when electronic docs =20 > were unavailable. The control group was left in the fonts the =20 > teachers themselves chose; those fonts are unnamed. > > > > This is one of the study=92s conclusions: > > This study demonstrated that student retention of material across a =20= > wide range of subjects (science and > > humanities classes) and difficulty levels (regular, Honors and =20 > Advanced Placement) can be significantly improved > > in naturalistic settings by presenting reading material in a format =20= > that is slightly harder to read. While disfluency > > appears to operate as a desirable difficulty, presumably =20 > engendering deeper processing strategies (c.f. Alter et al., > > 2007), the effect is driven by a surface feature that prima facie =20 > has nothing to do with semantic processing. > > > > The authors point out that the retention was only for 15 minutes, =20 > so there may be less pronounced difference in longer terms. > > > > Anyway, it seems odd to me on many, many levels=97I wouldn=92t = consider =20 > reading Arial 16 on a paper as a =93fluent=94 choice. Someone found =20= > that a good font has about 70 or fewer characters in a line =20 > (Schriver=92s Dynamics in Document Design, p. 263). They also don=92t = =20 > mention leading. They don=92t cite reasons that Arial 16 point was =20= > used, either. > > > > I=92d be interested in what Info-D folk think of this kind of study. =20= > I am sometimes amazed at how blithely unaware some fields are about =20= > design. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Sue Smith > > > > Economist Article about the Study: > > http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-=20 > Yauman_Oppenheimer_2010.pdf > > > > Actual Study > > http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-=20 > Yauman_Oppenheimer_2010.pdf > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: > [email protected] > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: > http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe > > For all Information Design matters: > http://InformationDesign.org > > Problems? Write to: > [email protected] > ___________________________________________________________________ --Apple-Mail-4-321637654 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 <html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "> Dear Sue<div><br></div><div>I'm disappointed that no one else has = commented on your post! There used to be a number of experts in this = Cafe, but things have gone very quiet over the last couple of years, so = perhaps they have moved onto other places for = discussion.</div><div><br></div><div>I think the problem for information = designers with studies like this is that they run so directly against = our own instincts and training. For the most part, we spend our time = trying to make text more easy to read and thereby more useable by our = clients. The whole notion of disfluency -- of making something less = fluent, less useable and more ugly =96=96 is an anathema, and sounds = like something cooked up by academics rather than practitioners. I'm = afraid that I simply cannot accept that the production of any sort of = teaching material in Comic Sans, Hattenschweiler or Monotype Corsiva is = a good idea.</div><div><br></div><div>There have been sporadic = discussions in this Cafe down the years about what fonts are best for = reading. They have all petered out because as someone always indicates = there are so many variables involved -- size, line length, leading, = spacing, colour etc etc -- that it is impossible to make a set of = rules.</div><div><br></div><div>Anyway, FWIW, those are my views. I = don't have time to write a longer post at the moment, but I wanted to = let you know that at least one person had read your original = contribution and taken the trouble to look up the = reference. </div><div><br></div><div>By the way, you have posted = the link to the Princeton article twice, and omitted the link to the one = in the Economist.</div><div><br></div><div>best = wishes</div><div><br></div><div>Charles = Foster</div><div><br></div><div><br><div> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span"= style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Verdana; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Verdana; font-size: 11px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><span = class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><div><span = class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; = "><div>--------------------------------------</div><div>Charles = Foster</div><div>email: <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a></div><div><br>= </div></span></div></span></div><div><br></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br><div><div>On 2 Jun 2011, = at 21:40, Smith, Susan N - (snsmith) wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div = class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal">I=92m a teacher and have a few weeks to read what I = want for a change. I came across this study (link to story about = it, and the actual study, below).<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" = style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span = style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New = Roman""> </span></span>In the first = study, the test group read items in Bodoni MT italic 60% gray scale or = Comic Sans 12 point 60% gray scale. The control group read Arial = 16-point. <o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p> </o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 = level1 lfo1"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt = "Times New Roman""> = </span></span>In the second study, high school teachers sent their = learning materials to the study, and =BD were made the test groups read = things in Haettenschweiler, Monotype Corsiva, or Comic Sans italicized = in 12-point. Alternatively, some materials were copied by moving the = paper up and down while copying when electronic docs were unavailable. = The control group was left in the fonts the teachers themselves chose; = those fonts are unnamed.<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p> </o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal">This is one of the study=92s = conclusions:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" = style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-autospace:none"><span = style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif&q= uot;;color:black">This study demonstrated that student retention of = material across a wide range of subjects (science = and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" = style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-autospace:none"><span = style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif&q= uot;;color:black">humanities classes) and difficulty levels (regular, = Honors and Advanced Placement) can be significantly = improved<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" = style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-autospace:none"><span = style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif&q= uot;;color:black">in naturalistic settings by presenting reading = material in a format that is slightly harder to read. While = disfluency<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" = style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-autospace:none"><span = style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif&q= uot;;color:black">appears to operate as a desirable difficulty, = presumably engendering deeper processing strategies (c.f. </span><span = style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif&q= uot;;color:#000066">Alter et al.,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.25in;text-autospace:none"><span = style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif&q= uot;;color:#000066">2007</span><span = style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif&q= uot;;color:black">), the effect is driven by a surface feature that = prima facie has nothing to do with semantic = processing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" = style=3D"margin-left:.25in"><o:p> </o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal">The authors point out that the retention was only = for 15 minutes, so there may be less pronounced difference in longer = terms.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal">Anyway, it seems odd to me on many, many levels=97I = wouldn=92t consider reading Arial 16 on a paper as a =93fluent=94 = choice. Someone found that a good font has about 70 or fewer = characters in a line (Schriver=92s <i>Dynamics in Document Design</i>, = p. 263). They also don=92t mention leading. They don=92t = cite reasons that Arial 16 point was used, either. = <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal">I=92d be interested in what Info-D folk think of = this kind of study. I am sometimes amazed at how blithely unaware = some fields are about design.<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sue = Smith<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal">Economist Article about the Study:<o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal"><a = href=3D"http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yauman_Oppenh= eimer_2010.pdf">http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yauma= n_Oppenheimer_2010.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p><p = class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Actual = Study<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a = href=3D"http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yauman_Oppenh= eimer_2010.pdf">http://web.princeton.edu/sites/opplab/papers/Diemand-Yauma= n_Oppenheimer_2010.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span = style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif= ";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; = ">___________________________________________________________________</div= ><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: = 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Use the = following address to post a message to all subscribers:<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">infodesign-cafe= @list.informationdesign.org</a></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: = 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To subscribe, unsubscribe or = change your options, visit:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe= ">http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe</a></= div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: = 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">For all Information Design matters:</div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"http://InformationDesign.org">http://InformationDesign.org</a></di= v><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: = 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; = ">Problems? Write to:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: = 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">InfoDesig= [email protected]</a></div><div style=3D"margin-top:= 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; = ">___________________________________________________________________</div= > </blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-4-321637654-- --===============1589006554== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________ Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers: [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit: http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe For all Information Design matters: http://InformationDesign.org Problems? 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