Re: Fw: Question about GPL (semi off topic)

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> For Linux, "User Space" applications that use standard API's does not
> come under the GPL.

JDBC is a standard API. The MySQL driver is just an implementation, but you
shouldn't have to change a single statement in your code when switching from
a MySQL driver to for example a PostgreSQL driver. My take is thus that the
program doesn't depend on the driver - it depends on/is linked against the
JDBC API.


> A potential /bad/Not in good faith/Against the spirit of the license
> solution would be to write a middleware application/WebService that
> uses the MySQL driver and open source that.
> Your application can communicate with the WebService bypassing the GPL
> issue with MySQL Client.

Hibernate (http://www.hibernate.org/196.html) would be an example of such
middleware, right? So as long as Hibernate's LGPL license is compatible with
MySQL's GPL license (which I assume it is), your program will only be
subject to the LGPL, not GPL. Problem solved?

-- 
Martin Lie


[email protected] wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Regarding the difference between Using MySQL and Linux.
>
> For Linux, "User Space" applications that use standard API's does not
> come under the GPL.
> According to Linus  Torvalds (http://kerneltrap.org/node/1735) , all
> modules do come under the GPL because it uses detailed Linux internal
> calls and comes under the "linking with libraries"
> So you can use Linux and and run commercial applications without GPL
> issues.
> Binary only modules are kind of in the Gray area of the license but
> Linus believes that binary only modules are a violation of the GPL.
>
>
> MySQL is a little bit different.   MySQL consists of two components
> (The client driver software, and the Server software)
>
> It is clear, there are no issues with the MySQL server part.  You can
> run the server any way you want (Running is specifically excluded
> from the GPL license)
> as long as you are not modifying it, or imbedding the server into your
> application.
>
> The issue you have is with the MySQL client driver.  If you link
> (dynamically or statically) with the driver, then your application
> comes under the GPL.
>
> So the clarification you need to get from the GPL folks as
> recommended by MySQL is
> "Is providing a ASP type service using software linked with GPL
> libraries considered an activity of distributing".
> ** It is clear that copying and modifying and not distributing
> satisfies the GPL (no violation)
>
>     Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are
> not covered by this License; they are outside its scope.  The act of
> running the Program is not restricted"
>
>
> A potential /bad/Not in good faith/Against the spirit of the license
> solution would be to write a middleware application/WebService that
> uses the MySQL driver and open source that.
> Your application can communicate with the WebService bypassing the GPL
> issue with MySQL Client.
>
> Thanks,
> Edward
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Christian Cryder <[email protected]>
> 06/02/2005 07:44 AM
> Please respond to christian.cryder
>
>         To:     [email protected]
>         cc:
>         Subject:        Re: Fw: [barracuda] Question about GPL (semi
> off topic)
>
>
> Just thought I'd pass along the rest of my discussion w/ the MySQL
> folks, so you can see how it ended. Interesting, to say the least.
> Thanks for all the input and insight in the previous responses...
>
> Christian
>
>
> Matt Fredrickson wrote:
> Christian,
>
> We are not the experts of the GPL licenese and there are many
> scenarios and business cases that can fall under the GPL.  I suggest
> that you talk to the GPL folks to see if what you are doing falls
> under the GPL (they are the experts on the GPL license).  If they
> agree that your usage falls under the GPL, you are absolutely fine
> using MySQL.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Matt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christian Cryder [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 1:42 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: MySQL Inquiry]
>
> Sure. We have customers who are in a contractual arrangement with us
> (details of those contracts aren't pertinent to this discussion).
> They do not pay any fee to use our software; our software is free for
> all our customers. They access it via a web interface. The software
> runs entirely on our own internal servers. We do not resell or
> redistribute our software code. Any GPL libraries we use are "as is"
> - we don't modify them.
>
> That's basically it.
>
> Christian
>
>
> Matt Fredrickson wrote:
> Can you tell me more about your ASP model?  Do you charge your
> customers a monthly or yearly fee?  I may need to run your scenario
> past our legal department for a better explaination from MySQL.
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christian Cryder [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 11:52 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: MySQL Inquiry]
>
> Matt Fredrickson wrote:
> My apologies, you could use MySQL under the GPL license as long as
> your application is open source.
> No, our application is not open source (which I was clear to state).
> We follow an ASP model, the code we write simply runs on our servers,
> and it may _use_ some GPL software (ie. Linux, other 3rd party GPL
> libraries, etc), but it does not modify or distribute them. It simply
> runs them.
>
> Now, from the GPL verbiage at http://www.linux.org/info/gnu.html, I
> see this: "Activities other than copying, distribution and
> modification are not covered by this License; they are outside its
> scope.  The act of running the Program is not restricted"
>
> So just to be clear, all we are talking about is _running_ a GPL
> program on our own servers. We have a webapplication that uses
> various libraries (some GPL) as it handles user requests and
> generates web pages for them to view. But we never _copy, distribute,
> or modify_ any of the GPL code.
>
> So the question remains - why can I not use the GPL version of your
> software? I'm asking for a specific explanation based on the GPL
> license: why would my being an ASP have _anything_ to do with whether
> or not I can use the GPL version of your software?
>
> I really need to get a clear, solid answer here (otherwise there is
> no way I'll ever be able to convince anyone here to even consider
> MySQL).
>
> Thanks much,
> Christian
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christian Cryder [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 11:25 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: MySQL Inquiry]
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> Sorry if I'm being obtuse here, but I'm not sure I'm following your
> answers. If the GPL has nothing to do with my being an ASP, then why
> would my being an ASP prevent me from using MySQL under its GPL
> license?
>
> Thanks for clarifying,
> Christian
>
>
> On 6/1/05, Matt Fredrickson <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have a followup question (because I know I'm going to get asked
> this by my peers here). Could you explain to me how the GPL has
> anything to do with us being an ASP?
> It does not.
>
> In other words, what part of the GPL distinguishes between whether a
> webapp on our servers is being accessed internally (from local
> network) vs. externally (via our clients)? Wouldn't we run into the
> exact same issue simply by using Linux servers (after all, Linux is
> GPL too)?
> From my understanding, with the GPL, it does not matter if it is being
> accessed internally or externally (e.g. intranet versus public
> website).
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt




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