Re: Default Template discussion

Dirk Frederickx wrote:
> Hi Murray,
> 
> Tx for commenting...

It's getting to be a long discussion and a bit hard to follow all
the details.

>> As I mentioned to Claudia, my feedback on this would be to delineate
>> the types of functionality that each of these represents and manifest
>> those based on the type. My concern is more about what would be in
>> other interfaces a button, e.g., Edit, Add Comment, Log In, versus
>> things that alter views of content or metadata. So I'd group the
>> view-type tabs on the left, and the action-type tabs or links on the
>> right, perhaps also having a different L&F for each. We're close to
>> that already so it's not a big change I'm suggesting. And I don't
>> want to appear too dogmatic about this either -- the design should
>> have an intuitive feel that pleases 80% (the 80/20 rule), not
>> everyone. I'm hoping I'm guessing the desires of the 80%. :-)
>>
>> For the upper left set of tabs (which are not currently mirrored on
>> the lower left) I'd suggest using these solely for view changes, no
>> actions, keeping all actions on the right.
>>
>> Views:   View page, Info, Links, Diff, etc.
>> Actions: Edit, Attach, Add Comment, Log In/Out, etc.
> 
> I'd rather keep the Attach tab as is. It is a single place (consistent
> across the GUI)
> where you need to go when you want to do something with attachments,
> either view, upload, version history, delete.

I've been advocating  using tabs to select amongst the different views
of page content and metadata/things related to a page. This would suggest
that View, Info, Links, Comments, Attachments would be categories of
things, whereas Edit, Add Comment, Add Attachment initiate new actions
and really aren't of the same category as that of tabs. While MediaWiki
uses Edit as a tab, I think most user interface guidelines and most users
would *not* expect clicking on a tab to begin an action. So if we've got
a tab called Attachments it should show existing attachments, and provide
a button to add a new one. If we have a Comments tab, that tab would show
existing comments and provide a button to add a new comment. I still
maintain that Edit should be in the form of a button, but if not a button,
then certainly not a tab, as a tab in every existing user interface (linux'
KDE/Gnome, Mac OS, Windows) never use tabs to initiate actions. They are
always used to select amongst categories.

> Links will be retired as TAB and just get inserted in the Info page.

I think you can also retire Welcome as a link or tab and really leave
it up to showing up on the LeftMenu. Almost every wiki I've seen has a
link to the home page either at the top of the sidebar or via clicking
on the wiki's logo. We don't really need it at the top of the actions
bar.

>> I'd also make sure that if there is a top and bottom set of tabs
>> or buttons, that they be the same set on top *and* bottom. The
>> only exception to this would perhaps be More... since it's a menu
>> and menus don't work well at the bottom of pages.
> 
> What about dropping the page-actions at the bottom alltogether.
> Is anybody using them ? We'd better would replicate the TABs.
> (although that's not going to be easy ;-))

For really long pages I think having both top and bottom actions is
actually a really nice feature. I don't think we need to replicate
tabs at the bottom, as that is almost never found in a normal UI.
They'd be fine only at the top. But being able to initiate an action
from top or bottom (e.g., Edit) is very helpful. I sometimes edit a
page upon initially hitting it, or sometimes after I've read to the
bottom. But if we're going to have top and bottom actions, they
should be the same. Tabs and menus at the top only is normal.

my 2c anyway.

Murray

...........................................................................
Murray Altheim <murray07 at altheim.com>                           ===  = =
http://www.altheim.com/murray/                                     = =  ===
SGML Grease Monkey, Banjo Player, Wantanabe Zen Monk               = =  = =

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