Re: [nbdt] Re: [nbboard] Re: NetBeans Governance [was: [n b d t] Conversations during JFokus]

On 23/02/2011, at 4:01 PM, Tom Wheeler wrote:

> Hi Ashwin,
> 
> I think the essential point is that the current model isn't being
> followed at all.  As I explained in the message titled "Call for
> NetBeans Governance Board Elections" earlier this week, NetBeans' own
> Web site say elections for the current governance board should have
> been held one year ago.  That didn't happen, and no reason for the
> delay was given and no elections has since been scheduled.

This is clearly broken, and we have to fix this. 
> 
> Since only Oracle employees have the ability to update the governance
> pages on the netbeans.org site, we're left to assume that they either
> reflect Oracle's viewpoint or Oracle cares so little about them as to
> leave them totally unmaintained.  I'll point out that the bottom of
> each page also has the logo for various other Oracle open source
> projects -- including the OpenSolaris project -- and I certainly hope
> Oracle and the community can forge a more productive, more open
> relationship then they did.
> 
I could understand why it may be perceived this way, but I don't believe it is the case. In my point of view, the focus on these pages continually took a back seat over time, purely on account of efforts being made to  update the elements that change more frequently, like the pages that need refresh during new releases etc. As the Governance model was never really discussed or changed or reviewed since its inception, it never required any change, and the interrupts that typically trigger page updates probably never happened.

But it is certainly a good idea to try and put some mechanisms in place to avoid this in the future. So we should think about that.

> There is a widely-held perception that NetBeans is "Oracle's project"
> whereas I view it as a community project in which Oracle is the
> biggest participant.  The netbeans.org site [1] seems to agree with my
> view: "as with any open source project, all decisions are made by the
> community at large."
> 
> Although low-level technical discussions have generally continued to
> take place in the open, the longer-term "vision" decisions about
> NetBeans direction and marketing haven't involved the community at
> all.  The perception that this is Oracle's project limits community
> involvement.  Clearly Oracle has a strategic interest in NetBeans, but
> lots of others do as well and it's very rare that those interests are
> at odds with each other.  What we need to do is identify and eliminate
> the barriers that keep people from getting more involved, not erect
> new ones.
> 

Acknowledge this input. As in everything, there is always scope to evolve and improve. In this case however, even with respect to the longer term decisions, it is not that there is no scope for feedback, and I quote the same roadmap page which states: "If there are aspects of how the NetBeans project is being run that you disagree with, or think needs further discussion, then tell us about it on the nbdicuss list!", but I would think the issue is with the process employed. 

> Finally, I think we'd all benefit from some improvements in certain
> areas of the infrastructure and I'd expect a viable governance board
> which includes community members could help pursue that.  For example,
> there have been chronic issues with latency on the mailing lists --
> messages often don't show up for several hours after they were sent,
> then batches arrive all at once.  

Talking specifically to the infrastructure issue, yes we are having some problems at the moment. I believe we are going through a "teething" process having migrated to the new infrastructure. But we are looking into this. But with respect to the Governance board playing a viable role, I am sure they should be able to assist, but active community members can just as well pursue this. :-) Maybe my understanding may be not aligned with other opinions here, but I believe the Governance board's charter as defined currently is primarily in the role of an adjudicator in times of conflict. 

> The forum-based interface to the
> mailing lists doesn't show message context, so replies sent that way
> often make no sense at all.  Furthermore, the search interface to the
> mailing lists is slow, weak and hard to use.  

Has this feedback been provided perhaps as an Issue? 

> And as I discovered in
> the past few weeks, there are no longer any mirror sites for NetBeans.
> A connectivity problem kept me from downloading 7.0b2 from the normal
> site (both at home and at work), but the move to a single source of
> distribution impeded my ability to download and test the new release.
> These are just a few areas that I think we could improve for the
> benefit of everyone involved with NetBeans.
> 
So this particular case, I am made to understand is a one off issue. I have requested that somebody from our content delivery service provider reach out and understand the issue regarding this in particular. 

> Best regards,
> 
> Tom Wheeler
> NetBeans Community Member
> 
> [1] http://netbeans.org/community/releases/roadmap.html
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 12:03 AM, Ashwin Rao <[email protected]> wrote:
>> It may be best to clean slate this, and discuss first about what are some issues with
>> the current model. Would be good to be able to get the community perspective on this.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Ashwin.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tom Wheeler
> http://www.tomwheeler.com/