Re: OSWorkFlow moving to Codehaus??

> Weird, I didn't see the original.
>
> I was in fact going to float the idea in private to the powers that be  
> here, to see where things stand and so on, but since it's public,  
> might as well float the idea in public.
>
> First, I don't think I'm king. I'm not trying to wield power or throw  
> my weight around. If I did, I'd go for maximum effect and move  
> everything I can, I have no interest in doing so.
>
> Basically what it's come down to is that it's just not fun having to  
> deal with various aspects of opensymphony. I realise fully of course  
> that more often than not, this is completely self-inflicted. At the  
> end of the day where we're at now is that Pat is at the stage where  
> he's said that he'll basically ignore everything I say, since when I'm  
> annoyed about something, I'm unable to couch it in terms polite enough  
> for him to digest, so he'll just ignore the lot.
>
> There's also a matter of a certain level of professionalism and care.  
> Sure, we all have jobs that take priority, but it's rather deflating  
> to see the OS stuff constantly being put on some sort of back burner;  
> a general laziness, where it's OK for the website (or wiki) to be  
> broken for a day or two, it'll be fixed the next time maintainer X has  
> time.

We might indeed have occasional downtime, but this is not a reason to  
move, only a reason to improve the way we work. This can and will be  
fixed. Mike and Scott have put OpenSymphony on a faster server, moved  
the JIRA install to 2.6, installed Confluence as wiki and migrated all  
data.

> Then there's server uptime, which speaks for itself.
>
> So why codehaus? I hate most of the projects on there, I've not been  
> shy about saying that. Looking past that though, the one thing they do  
> excel at is services. I know that when something does go wrong, it'll  
> take minutes to fix. Maybe it's a timezone thing, who knows.

IMO Codehaus is becoming a pool of single-man projects (just look at  
the amount of JIRA projects) without many releases and maven-generated  
sites without good hand- written documentation. Codehaus has a lot of  
'technology' driven bleeding edge projects, which is cool, but none of  
which I can use in my day job (except maybe for Groovy and  
Picocontainer). OpenSymphony otoh has less projects, but at least they  
are usable, more developed and have some sort of consistent  
documentation.

>
> Why osworkflow? Well, it's a standalone unit to which I feel the most  
> ownership. It also does not make the decision for anyone else; with  
> all the other projects I deal with there are other people who put in  
> significant effort that it would have to be their decision. I  
> certainly don't plan on resigning or sinking opensymphony, and will  
> happily keep working on all the projects I'm involved in.

Once you move one project, what keeps the other project owners from  
moving 'their' pet projects wherever they want? You are setting a  
precedent.

>
> As is constantly pointed out to me, opensource should be an enjoyable  
> and fulfilling past time. I enjoy the work I do for OS, but as I'm  
> reminded time and time again lately, certain parts of it just aren't  
> fun, and those parts are often meta-issues, rather than project  
> specifics, so I'm considering changing the environment to one where  
> dealing with the meta-issues might not be so unsatisfying and  
> annoying.

Codehaus might be more reponsive and offer more 'support', but what if  
Bob decides to go on a long holiday?

>
> I haven't decided anything, and as has been pointed out, it isn't  
> entirely my decision. Obviously, I don't expect people to jump up and  
> down and cheer at the idea, and in reality, I really think very little  
> will change; certainly OS won't end up being neglected (any more than  
> it is), or my contribution decreasing (any more than it has). Nor is  
> this any sort of tip of the iceberg type deal. All I'm moving, and all  
> I intend to move, is OSWorkflow.
>
> So, thoughts?

I've always looked at OpenSymphony as a group of people developing  
projects mainly for their own use and the use of other professional  
java developers, interested in getting their day job done faster and  
nicer. Not as a group of latest, coolest technology driven people,  
wanting to get to the latest and hottest technologies but neglecting  
stability and ease-of-use (just look at the horror of Drools).

>
> On Apr 27, 2004, at 8:37 PM, Joseph Ottinger wrote:
>
>> Well, Mathias, Opensymphony as a repository is nice, but as a social
>> structure, it blows. I don't want to get maudlin or anything, but OS  
>> does
>> virtually nothing to make sure that project identification is worth  
>> beans.
>>
>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Mathias Bogaert wrote:
>>
>>> Hani,
>>>
>>> A thread on the Codehaus Hausmates mailing list discusses the fact  
>>> that
>>> you would like to move OSWorkFlow to Codehaus.
>>>
>>> Why? Why was not asked on this list first?
>>>
>>> I don't like projects we all work on, we all contribute to (in  
>>> various
>>> ways, even by merely promoting OpenSymphony) to be moved around  
>>> without
>>> a general consensus and good, valid reasons. OpenSymphony is an
>>> umbrella project of multiple parties, not of one guy thinking he is
>>> king.
>>>
>>> Mathias
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> -
>> Joseph B. Ottinger                              
>> http://enigmastation.com
>> IT Consultant                                     
>> [email protected]
>> Editor-in-Chief - Java Developer's Journal    
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>>
>>
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>
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