Re: How many do support the war?

begin  Michael Grimborounis's  quote:

| What I saw where
| pieces of brick or concrete flying about as the
| bullets started hitting the wall, just before hitting
| their actual target. The sound is also very
| informative. It is the sound of bullets _hitting_ the
| target, not the sounds of bullets being _fired_ from a
| place near the camera.

c'mon. they don't do much building in iraq with bricks, because 
there's not a lot of clay there, so it would all have to be brought 
in. and concrete is not the color of brass, nor does debris rise in a 
specific stream, at specific intervals. additionally, the claim being 
made by al jazeera (which they've backed off from in their arabic 
broadcasts) is that a single tank round was fired.

| I had also the benefit of viewing a video taken by a
| French TV crew, depicting the US tank fire at the
| Palestine hotel. Reporters at the hotel had to say
| that _no_ shots were heard coming from or arround the
| hotel, widely contradicting the US army
| representative.

reporters at the hotel have been consistently wrong, and the claim not 
to have seen something is scarcely a refutation. you have never seen 
me, but i exist. you have never seen the far side of the moon, but 
it's there, too. it's simply a nonstarter as an argument.

| Did US mass media inform public opinion about the
| fact? I have reasons to believe media arround the
| world would have taken the word up, had it been made
| more public. Did the US government opose these
| actions? And of course, no country's actions can
| justify US and its president for their policies...

what *are* you talking about? what fact? what actions?

| Well, it seems you now place Bush in the same league
| as the tyrant Mugabe.

of course i don't, and neither does anyone else with at least two 
brain cells to rub together. my point, which i give you the benefit 
of the doubt in presuming you did not miss deliberately, is that much 
of the world gives mugabe a pass -- and his actions are demonstrably 
execrable -- while without the slightest evidence those people 
denounce bush. which is to say that people who hold your opinion are 
as wrong as can possibly be.

|A good point I must say. It is
| terrible to note how many people are dying in Africa,
| without any country doing anything much to help them.

there is a difference between dying and being killed. yes, it is 
tragic that many people in africa are dying; even more tragic that so 
many are dying of the entirely preventable aids. but it is beyond 
tragic and indeed criminal that robert mugabe's regime is killing so 
many of the citizens of zimbabwe. i am sorry that moral relativism 
has reached the point where it does not recognize the distinction.

| Please keep in mind though, US is trying to enforce
| its presence as global leader, and advertising itself
| as enforcing law and order worldwide.

no, it is manifestly not doing that, or else we'd be in a lot more 
places than we are now. we are, post-9/11, acting to enforce our own 
safety. i would like to add "and let the rest of the world be 
damned," but in fact that's not the case. 

| That role carries with it great responsibility towards the whole
| of humanity. Are these the signs of a responsible
| power? Killing women and children was justified as
| being inevitable aside casualties (not sure about the
| term here), let's see how murdering reporters will fit
| in the new order of things...

now you're just being goofy. there have been about a dozen reporters 
killed in this conflict, and all but four (the three earlier this 
week and david bloom of nbc) unquestionably as the result of iraqi 
action or that of the syrians, saudis, sudanese, yemenis and others 
who it is now clear made up most of the "special republican guard." 
your outrage is absent in this regard, i notice. you are not calling 
those "murders," though three were killed by a bomb at a checkpoint, 
where their identity was clearly evident. and in none of the cases am 
i outraged, because war correspondents get killed. that risk is part 
of the job.

instead, i proffer the idea that there is a vast grasping now at 
anything which can cast blame on the u.s., and those things have 
consistently become fewer and weaker. there is, of course, a 
fundamental problem faced by the side that ascribes great satan 
characteristics to the u.s.: if what they claim are true, we would 
certainly have caught and killed them by now.

so if you believe what you say, you'd probably best hide under your 
bed.
-- 
dep

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