Re: Turkish Bombings

Andreas,

> > You do realize, don't you, that your paranoid ramblings skirt very close
> > to anti-semitism?
>
> I suppose that depends on how you define it. 

I define anti-semitism as anti-Jewish. Admittedly, if we use the term more 
literally it covers a wider set of peoples than just the Jews. However, in 
the west, where I live, anti-semitism is the term of choice for a racism that 
singles out Jews, that believes that all Jews have characteristics that are, 
somehow, particular to Jews--in the blood, as it were--things like 
avariciousness and a great business sense. People with this type of racism 
are often attracted to another lie about Jews, that they  are secretly 
plotting to take over the world. You seem to me dangerously close to this 
kind of paranoid vision. To wit:

 >Why would the Rothschild's asset Mossad (the Illuminati is a Kingdom of
>Rothschild asset) do such a thing?  "By way of deception though shalt do 
war". 
>At the time everyone is looking critically at Israel's ongoing genocide of 
the
>Palestinians (part of its grand plan for "Ersetz Israel" - a Greater Israel
>occuping a big chunk of other countries like Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Egypt, 
Saudi
>Arabia - you know, all the countries on the "we love Israel most" neo-con
>hit-list), the occupation of Iraq is going as bad as those of us with a brain
>expected before it started, and the world is realizing that Israel is the
>greatest threat (and its Great Whore the USA a close second

Criticizing Israel is not necessarilly  anti-semitic or anti-Jewish (if you 
prefer) but this kind of ranting may be. Bringing up secret societies and 
using keywords like Rothschild in the same breath is, I'm sorry to say, 
dangerously close to endorsing nonsense like Protocols of Zion. 

>
> Unfortunately you are taking the tired line:  instead of responding to
> reasoned arguments, you throw out the word "anti-Semitism".  

Yes, I guess you're right. It is a tired line. I know I'm tired of responding 
to the same old and tired lies about Jewish people. 

> Is it so hard 
> to engage in dialog and debate, rather than result to a series of insults
> ("anti-Semitic", "paranoid", "idiot" - all signs of someone who is afraid
> to debate the truth but resorts to ad hominem attacks)?

I said your expression was paranoid and idiotic and that your writing was 
verging on anti-semitism. Nothing ad hominem there. I criticized the ideas 
not the man.


> > Two synagogues were bombed at the same time by the same
> > organization.
>
> Presumably the same organization.  I realize that the timing of the attacks
> rules out coincidence for practical purposes but the possibility of a
> coordinated attack by separate organizations is not ruled out.
>

> > The fact that fewer Jews died from the explosions than, as you
> > say, Turks, is irrelevant.
>
> Irrelevant to whom, and for what purpose?  Do you think it is irrelevant to
> Israel that Jews were killed (hmm, did it send Mossad agents and all these
> other officials for the Turks that were killed, eh? - and please don't
> ignore the question, I would like an answer)?  

It's irrelevant because the two synagogues were the targets. If the bombers 
didn't blow up everything they wanted to (and really we can't know that), 
perhaps that's because they are incompetent. But, I guess in your paranoid 
view there are no missteps, no accidents. Everything that happens happens as 
it was meant to. As for the Mossad, how can I possibly know why Israel sent 
Mossad agents to investigate the bombing?   

It's funny. You're willing to attribute motives to the "Rothchild's asset 
Mossad" with scant evidence, but cry foul when newspapers report admittedly 
tentative and often corrected findings about who perpetrated the bombing in 
the first place.

> Was it irrelevant to the 
> news articles?  And answer me this, please:  is it really irrelevant to you
> whether Jews or non-Jews died in the attack?

It's relevant to me that people died in the attack. It's relevant to me that 
synagogues were the target, not for the first time either. To be against 
Israel is one thing. To attack any Jew because you are against Israel is 
another. And whether or not there were secret Israeli agents in the 
synagogues is beside the point. There were lots of people in the synagogue 
who weren't. The fact that more non-Jews died and were injured by the bombs 
simply emphasizes the possible incompetence and certain brutality of the 
bombers. 

> > Moreover, I ask you, were the Jews not Turks also?
>
> I suppose that depends on the way you look at it.
>
> I must admit, I was heavily influenced by the media reports focusing on the
> "Jews" that were killed, and also by the problem that there is no clear way
> to refer to non-Jewish Turks (if you have a suggestion, please do share
> it).
>
> Beyond that, I believe the Turkish Jews, who have lived in Turkey for quite
> some time (since the 15th century), are Sephardic Jews, and hence
> ethnically they are not Turks but Semites.  (By contrast, the Ashkenazim or
> Khazaar Jews (such as the Rothschilds), are Turks / Mongols and are not
> Semites).
>
I find this kind of nitpicking about the term anti-Semitism tired. Whether 
they were sephardic or ashkenazik, semitic or celtic, makes no difference. 
They were targeted because they were Jews. Where I live, that's 
anti-semitism. They are Turks if they vote in Turkish elections, just as I'm 
a Jew who is also a U.S. citizen. That's all I meant. 

> > It's idiotic thinking like yours that gets people like Bush elected.
>
> I guess I would reverse the charge :-), at least for this reason:  I don't
> think anyone that remotely thinks like me would have voted for Bush, in
> fact I'm quite sure of it.  This just proves that you really don't have a
> first understanding of what you are criticizing.  Perhaps more dialog would
> clear this misunderstanding up?

No. I stand by my statement. The kind of fantasies you loudly indulge in make 
it hard for serious leftists and liberals to work for the changes that need 
to made in the U.S. The right tars us with your brush and scares people away. 

Seth 


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