Re: Self-Righteousness, Sodomy and the Supreme Court (Was Re: Filter: Andreas Pour)

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On February 23, 2004 07:50, Rob Kaper wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 23, 2004 at 02:16:39PM -0500, Seth Rothberg wrote:
> > You can't know that, not having been raised by a single sex couple.
> > Besides, being raised by two moms or two dads may also, as you say be, 
> > "an experience that no child should live without"--just a different one
> > than being raised by a man and a women.
>
> Nonsense.
>
> It should go without saying that two same-sex parents would not be able to
> provide both a male and female perspective. While the experience would be
> equally unique, it would be one based on a subset of insights and
> viewpoints.
>
> Can a little girl *really* turn to her two daddies when she starts
> menstruating? Can a little boy *really* turn to his two mommies when he
> gets his first boner?

ask someone who has, i'm sure they'd be able to offer some insight. offering 
guesses from a position of ignorance is not only indefensible, it's 
unrebuttable unless one has that position of knowledge. i don't ... so... i 
can't rebut your statement, but then again, your statement is nascent.

and no, you can't rely on "logic" anymore than you can rely on "logic" when 
asking questions such as, "would you steal medicine for your child if they 
were ill and you couldn't afford it". we can guess at what we would do or how 
the situation would effect us, but we can't really know. and trying to make 
decisions for others such as you can't get married and adopt children from 
such a position of ignorance would move us into the territory of arrogance 
and prejudice.

one might think you could look to single parent families to see the effects of 
a single gender perogative on a child, but even that isn't accurate as there 
are unique (and probably more) pressures in a single parent family than a 
dual parent family regardless of gender involved.

> Sure, we could expand sex ed and shove yet another family responsibility to
> schools/government. Which is exactly the problem: we're replacing
> traditional families with shells and depend more and more on government for
> raising our kids.

if we wish to go back a bit further than the last century or two when the 
ideas of an atomic family became idealized goals for our western cultures, 
i'd suggest that an attendant problem is that we ONLY have immediate family 
support. we don't bring our extended family into it (older and hopefully 
wiser ;) nearly often enough as our society is no longer built around 
extended family (largely due to the ease of travel and the ease of ditching 
the elderly) ... we've also lost the concept of community having an impact on 
our children's upbringing, largely because of the loss of community due to 
various modern pressures ...

even dual sex partners often fail in raising children due to their own 
personal issues and/or lack of experience, dedication and abilities. we 
expect two random individuals to provide a solid context for a child when 
they've never done this before, because our society generally lacks a 
mechanism for community and extended family. it's even harder in the case of 
a single parent family, which i grew up in... 

this is not the same as central education or day care, either ;-)

and i say these things from the position of a first-time father of a 4 year 
old, so... i'm probably not completely talking out of my ass here ;-)

- -- 
Aaron J. Seigo
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43
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