Re: KDE Neon and how to handle this?

Thanks Thomas.  This was *extremely* helpful.

I have no interest in pushing KDE to do one thing or another.  But I
do want to help KDE come across as well as is possible.

With that in mind, I'm going to make this one last statement then get
out of the way:

On Monday morning (Pacific time) I will be writing a follow-up article
on this topic.  If the KDE community (or board... or whomever is
appropriate) has a statement prepared by that time I will happily
include it.  Uncensored (unless it's simply too long... in which case
I may have to trim it down just for space... maybe keep it to a single
paragraph).  My hope is that statement (along with whatever other
communication or action occurs between now and then) will allow me to
write an article that is practically dripping with love for KDE.  That
article, just like the one I published yesterday, will be my own
viewpoint and will not represent any other organization -- though I
will be reaching out for comment from leaders of multiple other distro
projects at that time.

Now I'm going to be a fly on the wall.  I'll keep tabs on this list
over the next few days just in case any of you would like to ask
questions of me (or ask me for assistance).  Otherwise... I'll not
interfere.

-Bryan

On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Thomas Pfeiffer
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Bryan,
> thank you for accepting my invitation to bring your ideas to the promo list,
> which is responsible for most of our outward communication.
>
> On Donnerstag, 11. Februar 2016 09:29:09 CET Bryan Lunduke wrote:
>> Let me start by saying that I am a *huge* fan of KDE.  I've been an
>> incredibly vocal supporter and advocate for many years -- and plan to
>> continue to be well into the future.
>>
>> That said, I was confused and disappointed by the way the KDE Neon
>> announcement occurred.  Causing me to write the following article:
>>
>> http://www.networkworld.com/article/3032063/opensource-subnet/kdes-new-linux
>> -distro-terrible-idea-or-simply-a-huge-mistake.html
>>
>> The response from the likes of Jonathan Riddell (and a small number of
>> others) was nothing short of... terrible.  Personal, ad hominen
>> attacks that just make KDE look terrible.
>
>> So we've 2 key problems (as I see it) right now -- which could be
>> rather easy to fix.
>>
>> 1) The KDE Neon team has been positioning themselves as representing
>> the whole of KDE.  With statements like "KDE‬ neon website is now
>> live, serving packages of KDE software fresh from the community who
>> makes it".  They then take the opportunity to declare a singular Linux
>> distro as "technologically superior" to all others.  After having
>> talked with some others at various projects... this is the impression
>> that most people have gotten.  And it's not a good one.
>
> Where exactly did you find that quote?
> I agree that "serving packages of KDE software fresh from the community who
> makes it" can easily be misinterpreted (I say misinterpreted because I know it
> wasn't meant that way) as "We're the ones making the software". It's
> unfortunate wording, even though not intended as such.
>
> What the neon website reads (at least now, I don't know if it was altered as
> some point), however is "packaging the hottest software fresh from the KDE
> Community ovens". "The KDE community ovens" being the repository of release
> tarballs, this is a claim which every distribution that ships newest KDE
> software timely after its release can rightfully make. We'd have no problem if
> e.g. openSUSE Tumbleweed, Arch, Chakra, Manjaro or KaOS put that claim right
> on their website, because it would be 100% as true for them as it is for neon.
>
> Would you think that this wording is still unfortunate? If so, what would be
> your suggestion for a rewording? I mean, neon of course wants to express that
> they serve the newest software from KDE, because that is their whole point.
>
>> 2) The response to my criticism of the "KDE Neon" project was met with
>> anger and hostility.  Which is fine.  But it was also responded to, by
>> the leader of the project, with personal attacks.  None of which
>> addressed the underlying concerns.  Now, I'm a big boy.  Riddell can
>> be a bully to me if he wants to... I can take it.  But it makes KDE
>> look bad.  Very, very bad.  And that is not cool.
>
> When people see someone say negative things about things which are dear to
> them, sometimes they lash out. Still, that's not an excuse for being rude.
> It's just not a very mature thing to do. I've told them that personally and
> I've said it publicly.
>
>> The way I see it, there needs to be a clear distinction made between
>> "KDE" and "KDE Neon".  I would go so far as to make a public statement
>> that the views of "Neon" do not represent the KDE community and the
>> KDE community does not support their statements or actions.
>
> Okay, here's the thing. "The KDE community" cannot make any public statements
> because it's just a group of individuals working for the same cause.
> The KDE e.V. could, yes, but the only thing it could clarify is that any views
> expressed by members of the neon team, be it on their website or on social
> media, are their own, not the e.V.'s.
> Stating that the e.V. does not support neon's actions in general would be a
> lie, because if it didn't, the membership would never have voted the project
> in.
> Which specific actions should KDE officially not support, then?
>
> Btw: I might have missed them, but I have never seen a public statement from
> the Linux Foundation distancing itself from Linus Torvalds when he has made a
> rude statement towards somebody.
>
>> It may seem silly.  And it may seem obvious to those of you "on the
>> inside" of KDE.  But the rest of the world is not seeing this
>> distinction.  It needs to be made in stark, undebatable terms.
>
> Also, what do you think about David Edmunson's statement from the Plasma
> maintainer's perspective [1]? Did you find that helpful?
>
>> Again.  I love you guys.  Love what you do.  And some of my dearest
>> friends are among your members.  I want to help here.  If you need any
>> assistance in drafting statements or coming up with the right
>> wording... please don't hesitate to ask.
>
> As long as you want KDE to distance itself from one of its projects, I can
> tell you that this won't happen.
> If you'd like to help us make our communication clearer to avoid
> misunderstandings, then your help is welcome!
>
> Best,
> Thomas
>
> [1] http://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/neon-and-plasma
>
>
>
>
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